Is that kind of part of what you're saying?

I feel, I feel like that, or there's, um, I, I, before I worked at Church of God Ministries, I worked in a mega church, about 4,000 a weekend.

That was what pulled me into, uh, ministry.

And there they d- um, I was the person, they created the role for me.

Um, and they didn't like the word chief.

Um, so especially as a woman, they didn't like the word chief anything.

Nobody's a chief.

Before we land the plane