How do you advocate to people about whether you're entry level advocating to mid or even as a VP now advocating to your president for your staff? Like, how do you do that?

Yeah, I think it's really trying to be on the same page as to what it is that folks want to accomplish.

And again, this is where-- So I come into the role.

This is my second VP role.

This is my thirteenth year in the profession.

So I don't have the twenty-plus years of experience, but I come into it from a very systematic approach.

And so when you think about it, systems thinking, I'll use Wichita State.

And, and so while I think that structurally a lot of things are being experimented with, I think that those will help and yet, uh, there's systems that need to be changed, and we can't just expect one person or like our singular VPs to be able to change a, a, an entire s- national system by themselves, right? So and, and I don't have the answer as to, to how we do that, but, but I think collectively there are people smarter than I that can, that can help lead that conversation.