But

those movements began in the 40s and continued through with, you know, the SDS and the Weathermen and, you know, Barack Obama launching his campaign out of Bill Ayers' house.

And, like, the idea that this... is like the civil rights portion of this, which I actually agree with, removing the Jim Crow laws, dismantling that from all of the other things around it, from welfare to the various terrorism acts to the deliberate movement to take away the locus of control from the individual to the group.

At some point you do say, well, yeah, you kind of, they were victims in the 50s.

That doesn't mean you have to have a victim mentality and those are probably separate problems.

But the idea that the government was victimizing black people, like that was true.

And having, you know, I agree with your like systemic racism doesn't exist.

Yeah, I think that was actually a perfect

again, and

I'm definitely outnumbered, as usual, but it's fine.

I have no problem with it.

I actually appreciate a lot of what Jay had to say regarding Christianity, but unfortunately, I don't think that the biblical text supports his position correctly.

And I don't think that many people in the audience would, but we'll see.

Anyway, tonight's question is not which religion is true.

Jay and I can debate that another night, and we've kind of debated that in another circumstance.

Visit SpinQuest.com for more details.

Okay.

I'm just trying to show the broader how the Islamic dilemma debate goes back and forth and where the hang up is.

You guys, on the other hand, want to make this as general as possible.

And that's how you're interpreting it.

You're saying, no, this is it's saying that the Jews really shouldn't come to the prophet or the Koran because they have the Torah.

And that's stated in as general terms as possible.

judge by your torah so if we're supposed to judge by the torah it doesn't say judge by parts of the torah it just says judge by the torah when it comes to the injeol it says to the people of the injeol to judge by the injeol it doesn't specifically say no only judge by the parts of it that agree with the quran or only the parts of it which supposedly prophesy the prophet muhammad so and then the That's the same debate that happens in pretty much every other verse.

in the

Why do feminists lean more towards, you know, aborting their children?

Well, I actually think that it's like a demonic inversion.

And this is maybe a little bit off topic, but...

I believe that there's something inherent about human sacrifice in the human condition when we stray far enough away from the good.

For example, in Christianity, one of the central themes is sacrifice.

Jesus says, this is my body, and I give it to you.

I sacrifice it for you.

So hasn't it become a long-term thing? Even if, let's grant your premise that the feminists wanted it for them at the time, hasn't it now then become a long-term thing because any woman can go and get a credit card, a bank account, a mortgage, do what they want?

Oh, okay.

So good evening all.

I'll start my opening statement now.

I'd like to welcome the audience, everybody who is over here watching the debate.

Could be anywhere else in the world, but you're here with us.

I appreciate that.

Thank you very much to Modern Day Debate for having us this evening.

Who is giving women this idea that they want to be this ultimate provider and protector? Who's giving that?

I'll start it.

Okay, good? Yes.

Okay.

All right, thanks.

I'm back here again, and I'm definitely outnumbered, as usual, but it's fine.

I have no problem with it.

I actually appreciate a lot of what Jay had to say regarding Christianity, but unfortunately, I don't think that the biblical text supports his position correctly.

We'll kick it over to Jake for his five-minute closing as well.

All right.

Okay, so you keep making a claim about how the West and which you think is built upon Christianity is so great, but if you look in all of the major categories, the West and the Christian Church are absolutely the worst when it comes to murder, when it comes to When it comes to alcoholism, the West, in all of the top 10 countries, in all of the major categories of crime, are all the top 10, all of the countries that you would advocate for.

So if by their fruits you shall know them, it's the exact opposite, because the West has produced, in its society, the most amount of criminals that are murdering, raping, that are addicted to alcohol, et cetera, et cetera.

And not only that, we see that the West is failing in terms of passing down its religion to its own children.

Now you say, well, yeah, Christian- Christianity teaches love your neighbor and this kind of, uh, what, uh, what I would call Care Bear Christianity, which is, [laughs] is not true at all.

But in actual fact, what we find is the result of that is secular liberalism.

Out of Protestantism, you have the outgrowth of separation between church and state, you have secular liberalism, which is the dominant ideology in the West, not Christianity.

Um, so therefore, then when he creates, he is over, and there is no horizontal obligation.

Okay, great.

All right, the question of this debate is, is the Quran immoral? David affirms, so David carries the burden.

And it is heavier than a list of verses and a hadith that he's just gone through.

He must give you a real standard of morality, clearly.

He must show that the Quran, read fairly, violates that standard.

and his standard must survive one test unique to today.

It cannot be one that condemns the book he just spent the last few hours defending, the Bible.

clear.

Yes.

Okay, great.

All right, thanks for inviting me to this event.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to make it in person.

Uh, probably one of the worst experiences I've ever had [chuckles] in an airport or with airlines, but anyway, that's a topic for another time.

So today's debate is, Is The Bible Immoral? I will argue that it is.

Not that it contains nothing true, but that it commands, endorses, and attributes to God acts that are seriously immoral and evil.

Yep.

Yes.

Okay.

All right, thanks.

I'm back here again, and I'm definitely outnumbered, as usual, but it's fine.

I have no problem with it.

Uh, I actually appreciate a lot of what Jay had to say, uh, regarding Christianity, but unfortunately, I don't think that the biblical text supports his position, and, uh, I don't think that many people in the audience would, but we'll see.

Anyway, uh, tonight's question is not which religion is true.

[audience applauding]

Good.

All right.

Do the Quran and Sunnah affirm that today's Bible is fully inspired, preserved, and authoritative? No, they don't.

My opponent, Michael, sometimes explains the dilemma in this way, and I quote, "Surah 5:47 tells Christians to judge by the Gospel, and 5:68 tells Christians that we have nothing to stand on unless we observe the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to us from our Lord.

But if Christians are to judge by our own scriptures, then Islam is false." Other times it's put as, the Quran affirms the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Bible, yet contradicts the Bible's teachings, affirming and contradicting it at the same time.

So the question is whether the Quran affirms today's Bible as fully inspired, fully preserved, and fully authoritative in its entirety.

Most of what you heard now is gonna be us speaking past each other, but I'm gonna demonstrate Michael's dishonesty and the entire Christian apologetic community's dishonesty dealing with this argument.

We're good.