And why are we worried about what they look like? We're there to compete to our best ability and not worry about what they do.

How do you get your mind around that? Well, I mean, it's crazy.

The self-doubt that pops up on on race day and when you can feel good and do all the right stuff and you turn up and for whatever reason all of a sudden the self-doubt comes in.

There was a guy in the 200, I was watching him doing his block starts in our warm-up And he was this like – he looked like an Olympian.

Like he just looked like he should be an Olympian.

He was this Jamaican sprinter who I just – and I was in the warm-up.

I tried to look up his name and then try and Google, is this guy a former Olympian – oh, sorry, an Olympian.

How's it gone yourself?

And for Hugh van Cuylenburg, who you may know from The Imperfects podcast, the first book he can rem- remember reading on his own has stuck with him forever, and the parallels to his own life have been profound.

[gentle music] Hi, this is Hugh van Cuylenburg from The Imperfects podcast and founder of The Resilience Project.

My favorite Australian children's book is Misery Guts by Morris Gleitzman.

So Misery Guts is about a, a boy whose name is Keith Shipley.

Uh, and Keith is growing up in London.

Uh, his parents own a fish and chip shop, and they are so miserable.

He's eight years old.

Mm.

And we just had that half an hour.

It was like the only kids' show that was on, so we'd all sit together on the couch and watch it.

My kids last night, my youngest son wanted to watch Bob the Builder.

He's three, so he watched Bob the Builder on the television.

And then my son wanted to... my oldest son wanted to watch, um, Star Wars, so he watched that on his iPad.

And then my daughter watched, um...

What, what are the benefits that we get from being grateful?

Mm

... challenge in a minute, Ryan, but I just have a question for you around, I think I'm particularly interested in, um, maybe Epictetus's, like, like what his thoughts would have been on empathy because-

Yeah

... born into slavery, um, I feel like empathy can be a double-edged sword.

It's something we talk a lot about in our school programs.

Um, empathy can often lead you to action that you mentioned before, but it can also be overwhelming and, and lead you to worry.

Um-

[laughs]

I can tell you.

But, um, sorry, to answer your question, I, to me, uh, sport has always, I just feel like sport gives us little examples of how great we can be as a society, and the example of the Winter Olympics, but to, to me as a track and field fan, like the- Same thing would happen with the high jumpers and now also with Nina.

Like, that is an example of, uh, like humans at its best.

I feel like to me it's kind of like scarcity versus abundance.

Um, scarcity mindset in sport is like, you know, we're raised on the idea that for you to win, someone has to lose, and that's like the fundamental structure of competition.

Like, there's literally one gold medal ceremony position at the top of the podium, and it's like it's physically designed for scarcity, uh, which kind of creates a mental framework where success is defined by exclusion.

What, uh, can we take from what we're seeing with this shared ex- shared success and implement in our, our everyday non-sporty lives?