Part of my job is to look for that.

To look for that.

And, you know, maybe your company has a, you know, a, a, a, a, a, a wonderful purpose like Patagonia where, you know, our goal is to save planet Earth, but it probably doesn't.

And so you're gonna have to find that yourself.

Um, but don't let anybody else tell you why your work matters or why it doesn't.

You have to make...

You have to do that.

Mm.

How do you feel like seeing it under attack now from people who don't understand its mechanics?

Yeah, I think, you know, McKinley's point, I want to emphasize that for a moment, that, you know, this is not only history.

If you define management as simply the structure system tools that we use to do together what we can't do alone.

So if you think about it as what we know as human beings about how we aggregate, mobilize, organize resources to productive ends, whatever that end is.

I mean, undoubtedly, this is the most important human technology of all.

Like there's nothing that's, you know, you can't, there's no recent patent, nothing, including AI, which may be a tool.

But there's nothing that's as important as our capacity to figure out how do we come together to do things collectively in ways that are highly efficient and highly impactful.

a pro the product of specific choices you make about how you manage organize and lead and so it's something that you need to work hard at and institutionalize otherwise it'll be very kind of brittle or it won't necessarily stick so those would be you know three pieces of of of advice for founders

But to me, the situation, the external context has changed, especially after COVID with the supply chain issues and also the inflation, etc., Do you see a similar path? Meaning, do you see how the general pressure coming from the environment is increasing and in a way or another is impacting the entire journey of SEO in terms of tenure, in terms of focus, in terms of skills? So what's your view about that?

I think it's a complicated picture.

Let me try to unpack it a little bit.

First of all, I think there's little doubt that we're living in a world where change is accelerating, where the future is less and less an extrapolation of the past, where every organization has to kind of win its success day by day, but where momentum and legacy and so on is perhaps less valuable than it was.

You see this certainly, if you look at almost any industry and you look at who has created the new market value over the last decade or two, almost universally, it's newcomers in hospitality, financial services, transportation, wherever you look.

It is not legacy companies.

You look at the fact that it took Facebook three or four years to win 100 million customers and it took ChatGPT 60 days.

But what are the attributes a leader should really...