That actually is a DA issue, yeah.

So i-in, in Europe, a, a coalition between the Greens and the Conservatives often works because they have separate constituencies, but they might have common interests.

And, and we can get South Africa there, where you've got an emerging middle class and a, uh, an aspirant emerging, aspirant emerging, and an established one.

So they're different constituencies, they've got common interests.

The, the question for me on, on MK and I is, is whether young Duduzane Zuma can realize why he is in the position of power that he's in now.

He, he's in that position for only one reason, which is that a, a, a decade, uh, at least, uh, two decades of ANC leaders made counterproductive economic policy decisions that saw the investment rate collapse.

And ANC voters aren't ideological, they're material, as everyone should be.

What, what would that path look like? And from a personal perspective, I mean, is he somebody who is committed to ANC leadership, or is he somebody who's sort of got other pursuits, and th- this is something that he's kind of weighing out from a personal perspective?

The full director's cut interview is on biznews.com.

The Steenhuisen story and the way I've thought about it is complicated.

I, I saw him in action ahead of the formation of the GNU, and he was excellent.

And, uh, we all owe him a lot of credit for what he did there.

He was, he was often put in, in a very difficult situation and was magnanimous.

Uh, I recall one afternoon, Mr. Ramaphosa had put him in a very difficult position, uh, sufficient to walk away, and he understood that that wasn't an option.

And I think that in, in...

And un- unfortunately, it seems that our intelligence service still did not pick that up, and at the end of the day, after they have been informed by the FBI about this incident that took place, they actually started to act on it.

But let's start off with my question of, so how much damage has Steenhuisen done to his old party? [upbeat music]

The, he, he, he took the DA up to these highs.

Actually puts pressure on his successor now, because he took it to very high numbers.

And it- the, the best way to think about, about your, the answer to your question is to just go, again, back a little bit.

What, what are we...

What, what is going on in the country at the moment? And, and what's going on is that South Africa is going through a period of regime change, in, in the nicest sense, not, not a pejorative sense.

And regime change is a two-step process.

Tony Leon?

Is it going to hurt them?

He took the DA up to these highs.

It actually puts pressure on his success or not, because he took it to very high numbers.

The best way to think about the answer to your question is to just go again back a little bit.

What is going on in the country at the moment? And what's going on is that South Africa is going through a period of regime change, in the nicest sense, not a pejorative sense.

And regime change is a two-step process.

And step one, it's always the same.

How much, though, if you take the bad, do the Charlie Munger invert thing, and if you take the stuff that's going to stop the DA from winning or the ANC from winning right now, pick it up or no longer picking up the rubbish because nobody is being paid uh treasury this morning said we're cutting off your water uh johannesburg so that's that's got to be hurting those in power but on the other hand the stern has in factor would that hurt helenzilla to a similar degree

Staying with politics, Dr. Frans Cunier unpacks growing tensions inside the GNU and why he believes its long-term survival is far from guaranteed.

On the future prospects of the GNU, I think the new DA leadership is more ambivalent about the survival of the GNU than the previous DA leadership, which was vastly determined to see it survive.

And they might have good reasons for that, the new leadership.

We'll go into that too.

I think in the kind of, let's say, centrist ANC camp, I think there's a feeling that, yeah, the GNU was a thing, but maybe it would have been better if we'd run a minority government and governed the country with 40%.

And then on the more kind of wild extreme of the ANC camp, the rebellion against the GNU is gaining in momentum.

Gauteng has always stayed out of it, and they've now formally brought the EFF into the government there, and they're talking to MK about doing the same.

who think

Do you see a scenario where it's possible that they would get to the 45? And indeed, if they don't, from what she said now, would you see her packing her bags and going back to Cape Town?

I think there is.

I mean, it's a daunting thing to offer advice to Helen Ziller.

If you want to do regime change, which is what she's busy with in Johannesburg, it's got a connotation, but it's actually what it is.

Regime change is a two-step process.

Step one, and it's always thus.

In Iran, this applies as much as it applies in Johannesburg today.

What might turn them from that path?

The SRF showed, actually, from that announcement… Yeah, because

we were polling every single day, you must understand, into the election.

We did it for a whole month, every single day.

We'd test opinion again.

And we could see, as that rocket of, well, we'll nationalize health care went up, ANC support alienated.

Why? Because the same point for many ANC voters come out of deplorable circumstances and horrible poverty.

This is the first, now starting a second generation of access to world-class medical care.

So you're under