Frank, how do you counsel provosts to navigate that tension without losing credibility on either side?

Well, I would say, and this is not open to a rejoinder from David, the provost position is the most difficult job.

on any campus.

And Gregor, you and I have a lot of friends who have served in the provost role who are now presidents.

Not a single one will tell you that the president job is worse than the provost job or more difficult.

And so the difficulty rests on this question because you have to have kind of a Janus-faced posture where you're facing in both directions, both toward your faculty colleagues and then of course the president and the board of trustees.

One of the things that I think is key and the relationships that I've had that have really worked well is Faculty leadership and the president have understood that I will maintain conversations in confidence always.

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