So maybe we can turn now to Geely as the sort of exemplar of just how creative you can be kind of going around, um, uh, uh, the sort of official Beijing, um, priorities into making something which is now a world-beating firm.

firm.Yeah, absolutely.

So Geely actually, I think, well, they have been also moving pretty aggressively in the West, uh, recently.

Actually, well, if you, uh, some of y-- uh, s-actually, I think both of you actually are based in San Francisco, right? So you can see some of the, uh, the new Waymo vehicles, uh, those, like, van-type Waymo vehicles.

Actually, they were made by Geely.

Uh, you know, so and, uh, so Geely actually, I think, is a very fascinating story.

So we were talking about Brilliance Auto, which seems to be totally unrelated.

And I guess also, like, to what extent the overcapacity is something that the central government is happy or upset about.

So maybe we can turn now to Geely as the sort of exemplar of just how creative you can be kind of going around, um, uh, uh, the sort of official Beijing, um, priorities into making something which is now a world-beating firm.

firm.Yeah, absolutely.

So Geely actually, I think, well, they have been also moving pretty aggressively in the West, uh, recently.

Actually, well, if you, uh, some of y- s- uh, actually, I think both of you actually are based in San Francisco, right? So you can see some of the, uh, the new Waymo vehicles, uh, those, like, van-type Waymo vehicles.

Actually, they were made by Geely.

Uh, you know, so and, uh, so Geely actually, I think, is a very fascinating story.

So we were talking about Brilliance Auto, which seems to be totally unrelated.

And I guess also, like, to what extent the overcapacity is something that the central government is happy or upset about.

What were they trying to do? What were some of the problems with this approach? And what was that era all about?

Yeah, absolutely.

So, well, when we're talking about Chinese automotive industrial policies, I think China had this first set of automotive industrial policy in 1994, and there was a kind of like prototype of that one.

back in 1987, so there were a lot of fascinating stories behind that.

We probably don't have enough time to go over them, but well, just a long story short, the Chinese government somehow found out that, well, there are a lot of, well, there are like some foreign automakers who are interested about China, not very a lot of them, because, well, China was still very poor.

Back in the 80s or the 90s, well, China roughly sell about half a million or a little bit more than half a million cars every year.

And the main buyers were mostly, well, government or government agencies, well, those downways or like government-owned businesses.

And I was wondering if you could talk about what caused this boom in new Chinese EV startups and what role did local governments play in supporting these new companies?

I mean, tell us what he did.

It is actually a very long story, so I will just keep it short.

Uh, I would-- Uh, I do agree with, uh, Dr. Yang that, uh, one key reason behind China's growth, uh, in EV is definitely, well, industrial policy, uh, especially industrial policy at the central level.

Uh, China actually, well, started, well, developing EV, uh, or, like, making EV development or, or Chinese peop- uh, the Chinese government call, well, new energy, uh, vehicle, which includes, well, battery, uh, battery EV, plug-in hybrid, uh, plug-in hybrid EVs and so on into the same category, uh, a-almost, like, 20 or 25 years ago.

And actually, I think the good thing about the Chinese industrial policy is that, well, it has been relatively stable.

There are very, very few, well, uh, sudden changes of industrial policy.

We can definitely see, well, counter examples, for example, in the US, uh, recently a lot of automakers are writing off their assets simply because, well, the United States, well, after Donald Trump-- uh, after the Trump administration, because, well, all the EV subsidies and EV, pro-EV policies are gone, so they need to write off their assets of making EVs, right? Uh, you, you see a lot of companies like Honda experiencing huge losses.

I think maybe, uh, Fengming can also give a review on the first and second waves.