Right.

And this is a very simple design where you have a sender and you have a receiver and investigators, usually two investigators involved.

So one investigator works with the sender, the other works with the receiver.

The receiver is put into a sensory deprivation state called the Gansfeld, which is a German word meaning whole field, developed by Gestalt therapists in the 1930s in Germany.

And it involves putting a translucent hemisphere over each eye, otherwise called a ping pong ball cut in half.

And you stick it over each eye and you ask the person who's playing the role of the receiver to keep their eyes open and you shine a red light in their face.

And so when you do that, everywhere you look, you only see pink.

But can you say a couple things about the practical side to real magic? Any words of wisdom you have for the listening audience on what would help them experience something like this?

It's very good to meet you.

So this, this next part will make your brain hurt in a good way, I think.

So when you do a, this kind of experiment over the internet, uh, It will look like it's in real time, and some of it will.

Some of it will have data streaming from the lab here into your browser.

But sometimes it will be data that had been recorded several months beforehand, but nobody looked at it yet.

So this is a retrocausal design.

So

the retrocausal design will operate exactly the same way that a real-time version will work.

Yes, please.

So I've been involved in that program when it was GCP1.

We started with Roger Nelson at Princeton University in 1998.

And even before that, for five years or so, was doing experiments that we called field consciousness experiments, similar to what's happening in the Dr. Joe events where you have local random generators in an event and you can see things happen.

So from a materialistic perspective, that doesn't make any sense at all.

The only way you can understand it is that there's some kind of energetic or electromagnetic or something happening in the generators.

But that's not the case.

Right.

You know? 'Cause, like, if you are, like, really wanting someone to, you know, have a bad thing happen.

It does create, it creates a different sense of responsibility for our thoughts.

And, and which is very similar in many ways to the idea of mindfulness meditation, simply being mindful about where your mind is.

Uh- The, the only thing that, that, uh, got me concerned was when I bent the spoon, because then it...

That that was a macroscopic effect.

And, and I...

To this day, I don't know exactly how I did it.

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If somebody is able to meditate many hours a day, it is toward what end?

It is towards the end of reaching a state of meditation called samadhi, which is, uh, a form of absorption or union with the universe.

It's-- It-- We would might think of it as a classical mystical state where you see no distinction between you and me and there and then and now and here and so on.

All of those ordinary distinctions dissolve.

This is, by the way, what, what the founder of our institute had.

He had a, a-- Edgar Mitchell was in the spacecraft and had samadhi with the universe, a very classic mystical experience.

Uh, many people report this.

Um, Doctor?

So Dean, what is it that you think most people misunderstand about consciousness?

Well, as, as Arnaud said, it's really all about the nature of awareness and in a sense asking, uh, what is it like to be you, and is that actually unique? Because it might be, as some of our research suggests, that, uh, whatever our awareness is is not limited to the individual body.

It's, it's spread out somehow through space and time, and if you follow that logic, at some point there's really just one awareness.

It seems to be split up into people, to individuals, but it looks as though at some level it is all one thing, one gigantic awareness that just splits into pieces, or, or potentially-

Uh, Dean.

Every time a new instrument has been discovered or developed, uh, w- it opens up entirely new realms of discovery, and oftentimes not even imagined.

So what I would do with a, a, a dream telescope is to figure out ways of collecting lots and lots and lots of dreams every night from people to look at what is the collective dream trying to tell us, and at minimum, to look for correlations among dreams.

So if you take an example of, uh, something like a major earthquake where there's a lot of, of tragedy and unexpected things happening, does that show up in general across a lot of dreams? Well, that would be an interesting thing to, to study, because dreams often include information that has not yet manifested today, but maybe it will tomorrow.

Early on in your book, y- you make some interesting, you point out some interesting things, which is that a lot of our, our modern science and our, our modern scientific method is derived from, uh, humanity's attempts to try and figure out what's going on with the paranormal.

Yeah.

If you look back into the history of science began with magic, right? So alchemy was partially magic, partially science, and it eventually evolved into chemistry.

Uh, astrology evolved into astronomy, and herbalism evolved into the pharmaceutical business.

So you don't have to go back too far, just a couple hundred years, when the distinction between magical ideas and esoteric ideas and science were very tightly mixed.

And so the, the, this name in, in historical terms of the Enlightenment was when it began to split.

And it began to split partially because, uh, people recognized that there was enormous amount of superstition.

Okay.

He's been on here before.

Yeah.

So Bigelow has very generously said, "Yeah, I'll, I'll pay for your way to go into the university there," and I was able to run my own lab.

So one of the very first things I set up then was, first of all, I wanna continue working on this neural network or machine learning method at, for making a technology of intention.

That was one of the things.

But the other one was this presentiment experiment.

So I ran that experiment and it was unbelievably good.

Okay

Right

... that the w- the reason that birds are able to do that is due to a quantum coherence effect.

So this is now taking these very elementary, strange quantum connections and having it emerge all the way up into a level of a living system, and previously, physicists thought, "Well, this is impossible," because you need special states of quantum coherence, which require, uh, states that are exotic, like extremely small and extremely cold and so on.

But this is no longer the case, that we now know that it also exists for long periods of time in hot, wet systems like biology.

And so the next step is going to be finding it in the brain, and the step, the step from there to some ki- something like a psi phenomena, I think is a small step.

And this area of research is moving so quickly that I don't think we're gonna need to wait 20 years to, to find this.

We, we might be within a matter of two to five years before someone, uh, makes this discovery.

Um, what about that?

Yeah.

And so at that point, you'll have enough skills, uh, whether you're interested in science or scholarship, it doesn't really matter, but you'll have skills that you can be- begin to bring to bear on these topics, and then you make yourself known to the few people in, in places in the world where there are jobs, and eventually there'll be an opening, and that's how you, you get into the game, essentially.

Most scientists go through an, uh, conventional training.

They go through 20 years of school.

Most scientists will never hear anything about psychic phenomena in their academic training, except maybe they'll hear about it and say, "Well, you can dismiss that because it's been proven to be all delusion and fraud." And that's all they know.So if somebody then claims that there is evidence for this, they will of course think that that's nonsense because they went through this training and they never heard anything about it.

Or they heard worse, that it's, it, there's something there, but it, you know, it was all denied.

So this has led within an orthodox science, within mainstream science, to the notion that people who believe in psychic phenomena are stupid.

Mm.

Dean

Radin, last word.

What is the next step for humanity? Eating less sugar.

You've

done that with a lot of people.

I've had literally thousands of such conversations with people, and you're one of the very few who followed through.

So congratulations on that.

So if people would like to take a look at this, I would recommend going to Google and just putting in Princeton eggs, and it will take you to – um the way the appropriate website it's too long for me to read to you but uh they're obviously you know the thing is still going i'm sitting here watching the eggs bounce up and down it's kind of eerie isn't it

yeah what you're looking at is a movie made of the behavior of all of the eggs over the past 24 hours and there's there's a number of new displays that are are being developed to to help visualize what's going on in this thing and by the way there's You asked, well, what's next? How are we going to advance this? And there actually are some advancements.

One of them is a clue that we've known for some years, that psi-ability in general seems to be modulated by the geomagnetic field, the Earth's magnetic field.

You may remember when the conscious universe first came out, one of the chapters talks about psi and the casino.

Since I was in Las Vegas, surrounded by casinos, I had always hoped that I could get some data on what actually goes on in the games from one day to the next because of the possibility that if we're really dealing with environmental modulation of these abilities, that we'd be able to see it in that data.

So I did an analysis.

I was fortunate enough to get some data for four years' worth of daily games, table games and slot machines.

Have developments in physics, and I know they're moving quickly in this area, continued to support the idea?

And then couldn't dismiss it.

Yeah.

That's a professor I knew who's passed away, unfortunately, but yeah, a very prominent person involved in psychiatry and brain sciences, who was asked to review an, an article I wrote, which was a study where we were seeing whether a Buddhist monk and a Mongolian shaman, who were trying to bless chocolate in that case, that if we ran a double blind trial with people that we recruited, where they didn't know what kind of chocolate they were getting, the blessed or the unblessed chocolate, would it in fact en- enhance their mood? Because that's the blessing that we asked the monk and the shaman to bless it with.

So, they did the study, it came out significant, and he was asked to review it.

And so, he reviewed it and it troubled him a lot.

But he eventually concluded that the methods that we used are standard, the statistics were correct, the, the results were what they were.

And so, what do you do with it then? And yeah, I put that in the book because he struggled with how does he then reconcile with the way you think the world works versus, "Well, what does that mean that you can bless chocolate and then suddenly people have a better mood? That sounds ridiculous." Nevertheless, he was a good enough empiricist, so he finally said, "Well, basically, I don't know what's going on here, but there's nothing wrong with the science." And so, the reason I put that in the book is because that sort of echoes throughout the whole discipline, that the people studying psychic phenomena from the beginning, like 140 to 150 years ago, in a scientific manner, have always been forced to be ahead of the pack in terms of experimental rigor, and statistics, and so on because we know that it attracts a huge amount of skepticism.

Okay.