So, so what do you make of this report and, and what do you think was, was going on around this time?

Look, it's, it's clear.

Delighted to be with you, Ali.

I, I think it's, you know, the whole media focus is on was there a phone call or there wasn't a phone call between Mohammed bin Zayed, the head of the UAE, and Prime Minister Netanyahu.

I tend, from what I've been hearing, there w- I do not find support for a call itself.

But from, I do find some indications that there were some back channel communications between Yahya Sinwar through an intermediary, uh, a Palestinian intermediary, uh, that made its way back to Israel, uh, which was limited at least to the issue of prisoner exchanges.

I actually think there was a broader thing going on.

... of that broader context.

Remind us of that broader

context.

two critical things, mega stories that were going on at that time in 2023.

One was the judicial overhaul of this government of Israel, which was very controversial about changing the role of the courts and perhaps diluting Israel's liberal character, which prompted a backlash among Israeli pilots saying that they were not going to fly in reserve duty.

In return, senior security officials were saying, after October 7th on the record, I happened to hear it before October 7th, saying, David, the Arabs think Israel is weak because the pilots won't fly in reserve duty.

And they are plotting.

They are meeting.

What would that look like? And how does this change the election? Right.

Remind us of that broader

context.

two critical things, mega stories that were going on at that time in 2023.

One was the judicial overhaul of this government of Israel, which was very controversial about changing the role of the courts and perhaps diluting Israel's liberal character, which prompted a backlash among Israeli pilots saying that they were not going to fly in reserve duty.

In return, senior security officials were saying, after October 7th on the record, I happened to hear it before October 7th, saying, David, the Arabs think Israel is weak because the pilots won't fly in reserve duty.

And they are plotting.

They are meeting.

What would that look like? And how does this change the election? Right.

Remind us of that broader

context.

two critical things, mega stories that were going on at that time in 2023.

One was the judicial overhaul of this government of Israel, which was very controversial about changing the role of the courts and perhaps diluting Israel's liberal character, which prompted a backlash among Israeli pilots saying that they were not going to fly in reserve duty.

In return, senior security officials were saying, after October 7th on the record, I happened to hear it before October 7th, saying, David, the Arabs think Israel is weak because the pilots won't fly in reserve duty.

And they are plotting.

They are meeting.

What would that look like? And how does this change the election? Right.

Well, that's his real politicians for you,

right? That's like, it's a classic political season here that he's worried most of all that everything is refracted through the lens of his base.

So, I mean, that's how I see that Right now, and you have to say for now, he is doing what the Board of Peace and the U.S. has asked of him, which is not to engage in new attacks.

So the issue about where to withdraw from is... is odd because the yellow line moves.

And the truth is, as far as I know, you might know differently, I don't think Israel has ever published where the new yellow line is.

Bibi said it's 70% of Gaza.

I think it's a little over 60.

Is there any option for any of this? I mean, do you see any of these options as realistic, David?

How have the Iranian attacks there impacted or changed the discussion about the war, and is there a wedge between the US and Israel when it comes to Israel's war in Lebanon?

Well, I think, uh, here you, you... there's a bunch of ve- uh, variables they're, they're trying to juggle.

Um, the country has gotten used to going in and out of safe rooms, um, shelters, um, at, you know, at, at a time of, of missile strikes.

Uh, and then life just goes back to being normal.

It's almost like a flash mob.

They all come together and then they all go back to normal.

But, um, the, the prime minister's in a rough spot here because every day on the TV and on the radio he's getting slammed by mayors of northern Israel who are saying, "You've abandoned us.

How much flexibility does Bibi Netanyahu have?

and Israel when it comes to Israel's war in Lebanon?

Look, I think here there's a bunch of variables that they're trying to juggle.

The country has gotten used to going in and out of safe rooms, shelters at a time of missile strikes.

And then life just goes back to being normal.

It's almost like a flash mob.

They all come together and then they all go back to normal.

but um the prime minister is in a rough spot here because every day on the tv and on the radio he's getting slammed by mayors of northern israel who are saying you've abandoned us you're like become the vassal of donald trump uh by he doesn't want you to hit in lebanon you don't hit but there have been like 15 soldiers i think that have been killed in the last couple weeks There are these fiber optic drones that Hezbollah operates that the IDF, for all of its technological prowess, has not found an answer to.

How much flexibility does Bibi Netanyahu have?

and Israel when it comes to Israel's war in Lebanon?

Look, I think here there's a bunch of variables that they're trying to juggle.

The country has gotten used to going in and out of safe rooms, shelters at a time of missile strikes.

And then life just goes back to being normal.

It's almost like a flash mob.

They all come together and then they all go back to normal.

but um the prime minister is in a rough spot here because every day on the tv and on the radio he's getting slammed by mayors of northern israel who are saying you've abandoned us you're like become the vassal of donald trump uh by he doesn't want you to hit in lebanon you don't hit but there have been like 15 soldiers i think that have been killed in the last couple weeks There are these fiber optic drones that Hezbollah operates that the IDF, for all of its technological prowess, has not found an answer to.

How much flexibility does Bibi Netanyahu have?

Who are the hardliners domestically?

Look, it's clear that while Israel has not done well in the polls, to put it mildly, in the Pew Research polls recently, I don't think most Americans, if you ask them, when they say since the late 70s, Iran is saying death to America, death to Israel, Anyone thinks that America's problem is Israel in that regard.

They understand in America that Iran has, since the beginning of the republic under Ayatollah Khomeini, has defined itself.

Its identity, its DNA is its opposition to the United States.

I don't think there's any confusion.

There's disappointment here with Israel arms from the Gaza war.

Now in this war, the people thought it would do better, but I don't think it's fair to lump them together.

Do you agree with Karim-Emile Bittar, David Makovsky, that this reporting about wariness within the Pentagon over Israel's spying is not that big a deal? But at the same time, why now?

Exactly.

Right, Israeli-control- which is 53%, and there you could see some construction in Rafah and you can envisage, uh, things getting better.

The red zone though is where 90% of the Gazans actually live, and I should say where almost all the trucks are going for-

Has, has Israel and Hamas, and let me ask you first, Dave Makovsky, has Israel, have Israel and Hamas lived up to the ceasefire so far?

Look, I think in the big picture, and we may have some disagreements, you know, Israel released 250 people convicted in courts for, for killing Israelis.

That was a big deal, life sentences.

1,700 detainees.

4,200 trucks a week, which was critical so people could have food, at least-

... why Netanyahu would agree to this particular plan, and why right now, when it could jeopardize his own governing coalition back in Israel?

Well, I mean, from a- Look, I think Netanyahu had to balance a lot of different things, Amna.

Um, first, you know, h- Israel is, is more isolated than it has been.

He knows there will not be a better deal than he would get one with- then with Donald Trump.

I, I think he doesn't want to miss that moment.

He doesn't want to put more strain on US-Israel relations, as President, uh, Trump has, uh, made clear.

He does want to end the war.

Mm-hmm.

What happened and what would need to change now?

Yes, no, really good questions and I agree with Yousef that if there would be fighting in densely urban areas, it- it becomes very bloody and that's why the idea of chief of staff does not want that and would like Israel to stay outside of the cities.

But I think they- there was a feeling that you were getting close under the Steve Witkof, uh, President Trump's envoy's formula of half the hostages getting out in return for a certain ratio of- of lifetime prisoners of Hamas being released, and let's remember that Yahya Sinwar, the mastermind of October 7th, was released in a very lopsided deal in- in, uh, with Gilad Shalit in 2011.

But still there was a feeling, okay, they're moving towards each other, and then it seemed, uh, that Hamas hardened their position and said, "No.

We're not doing this deal the way we said.

We will not disarm until after we have a state in Jerusalem." And this is coming at the very time that the Arab states, the Arab League and for the first time really called out Hamas publicly and said they have to disarm and they cannot govern Gaza.

It should be the Palestinian Authority.

Is meaningful American pressure even on the table right now?

Steve Wittkop, the president's special envoy.

Steve Wittkop, the president's special envoy, to get half of the, of the remaining, uh, hostages who are alive, officially the number is 24, um, and to see if you get half of them out now.

But when you press and say, "Okay, what about the remaining half?" and, "Are you gonna do this anyway?" And they say, "Well, we're gonna disarm Hamas anyway." So I said, "Well, is it the equivalent of telling someone, 'I'm not gonna kill you at six o'clock, I'm gonna kill you at seven o'clock, but I need your help at six o'clock?' And then what's Hamas' incentive if you're gonna kill them at seven o'clock anyway?" So, uh, you know, there's, there's some tension between these objectives.

Quote, "There is no clear objective or coherent plan for the day after, and that is why some Israelis are questioning this today." Do you agree? Is there a day after plan?

No, because there's division within the cabinet.

It's clear that, that the hard right faction of Mr. Smotrich, that you mentioned, and Mr. Ben-Gvir, they clearly want Israel to go there, to stay, to have settlements and all that.

The military establishment is horrified by this idea.

Their job is to focus on disarming Hamas.