What do you think?

Oh yeah, I'm so with you on that.

Look, I'm a huge sci-fi guy, so I can do every version of the dystopian future of iRobot or any other Isaac Asimov book, or what happens in The Matrix, or in Total Recall.

I mean, we could do this all day long about all the ways that the robots can turn on and Terminator Skynet takes over.

We can do all of that.

but this is so obviously a political op that is happening on us right now it is ridiculous the fact that a low-level employee a week ago at anthropic who had worked there for two months who has ties to left-wing groups that he puts this twitter post up when he has no followers it's retweeted by virtually everybody and now you've got obama Hillary, Bernie magically had a piece of paper ready to go.

And now Bernie, who's been railing against the Epstein class, he's now buddy buddies with Steve Bannon, who basically was Epstein's number one friend.

Dave Rubin, is there someone right now or a group of people, maybe a list of names that when they speak, you listen to what they're saying when it comes to artificial intelligence?

What do you think?

Oh yeah, I'm so with you on that.

Look, I'm a huge sci-fi guy, so I can do every version of the dystopian future of iRobot or any other Isaac Asimov book or what happens in The Matrix or in Total Recall.

I mean, we could do this all day long about all the ways that the robots can turn on and Terminator Skynet takes over.

We can do all of that.

But this is so obviously a political op that is happening on us right now, it is ridiculous.

The fact that a low-level employee a week ago at Anthropic, who had worked there for two months, who has ties to left-wing groups, that he puts this Twitter post up when he has no followers, it's retweeted by virtually everybody, and now you've got Obama, Hillary, Bernie magically at a piece of paper ready to go.

And I'm just curious, a year later, somebody who knew him, What's your memory of Charlie Kirk and your hope for the future?

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Stay long about all the ways that the robots can turn on and Terminator Skynet takes over.

We can do all of that, but this is so obviously a political op that is happening on us right now, it is ridiculous.

the fact that a low-level employee a week ago at anthropic who had worked there for two months who has ties to left-wing groups that he puts this twitter post up when he has no followers it's retweeted by virtually everybody and now you've got obama hillary bernie magically had a piece of paper ready to go and now bernie who's been railing against the epstein class He's now buddy buddies with Steve Bannon, who basically was Epstein's number one friend.

These are all the people who want to control you and everything else.

Look, we can be wary about AI.

Again, I'm sympathetic to that and I understand that argument.

are archaic a little bit too dave rubin i wanted i wanted to give you the opportunity to talk about your friend charlie kirk in the passing last week um we're a year out of his grotesque and horrific murder but i do think his legacy lives on and maybe we're still trying to establish how we live in a post charlie kirk world but i'm wondering if his fingerprints are still on the everyday um you know existence that we have here as conservatives as as people who are faithful as people who have something the thing i appreciated about charlie the most was that what he talked about was what became before politics politics was the afterthought about the principles and foundations that he wanted to live his life with and i'm just curious a year later somebody who knew him what's your memory of charlie kirk and your hope for the future

And yet the common thread is these young people clearly have been brought up to think that both of those things are acceptable.

Right.

Well, I mean, we shouldn't be surprised that moral relativism is baked into the code of what the left has now unearthed and what has been going through our education system for the last 20, 30 years.

You know, the same people who were celebrating that Charlie got killed were the same people celebrating that UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson got killed in Times Square.

They're quite literally the same people that think a mother who's dealing with some psychological things is in essence allowed to kill her three children.

They're the same people who think you should have eight month abortions.

I mean, there's really a very perverted, twisted way of looking at the world here.

And I am concerned about the idea that anyone celebrates someone being assassinated or thousands of people i mean just to me that's an indictment on our on our education system

And yet the common thread is these young people clearly have been brought up to think that both of those things are acceptable.

Right.

Well, I mean, we shouldn't be surprised that moral relativism is baked into the code of what the left has now unearthed and what has been going through our education system for the last 20, 30 years.

You know, the same people who were celebrating that Charlie got killed were the same people celebrating that United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson got killed in Times Square.

They're quite literally the same people that think a mother who's dealing with some psychological things is, in essence, allowed to kill her three children.

They're the same people who think you should have eight-month abortions.

I mean, there's really a very perverted, twisted way of looking at the world here.

I mean, just to me, that's an indictment on our education system.

So this is, like, what's happening.

happening.What are some of the habits that you have, or when did you start developing some habits that kind of led you to a, a place of success or-

Right

... at night.

Now because of the kids, I keep it.

But, like, uh, I'll be like, "All right.

I'm not gonna touch it," and then next thing I know, 20 minutes have gone by and I've d- and, and then I'm like, "Whoa.

Where was I?"

I know you were close to him, and when you think back to the person you knew, not the public figure that the world saw, what do you miss most about him, and what do you think people still misunderstand about Charlie?

Oh, boy.

Uh, well, the first part I can tell you is that the public persona that you saw and that millions of people across the world saw, that was Charlie.

Charlie off-camera or off-stage or without a mic was the exact same person.

We talked about the exact same things.

We would debate politics in front of, you know, hundreds or sometimes thousands of college kids at different universities, and then we'd hop in the car, go to dinner, and we would continue the debate.

And, you know, 10 years or so ago when Charlie and I first met, we started touring together because we were on opposite sides of the polital- political spectrum.

Has that experience changed the way you view the, the level of political hatred in America?

Wow

...

if I go into a pizza place and there's CNN on, I won't walk in.

I mean, I really just avoid absolutely everything.

Um, and what I have found, um, over the last few years doing this, the, the first couple years I did it, it was sort of a joke.

I had just gotten a little bit of success.

I was like, "I don't know, let me just try something crazy.

Right.

I mean, firstly, how are you doing? How are you coping with it all?

Yeah, well, thanks for asking the question.

I mean, yeah, it's a difficult time for me, but I think it's a difficult time for every sane and decent person in the United States and around the world.

You know, Charlie, I knew Charlie very well.

We toured together, went to college campuses together.

You know, we kind of rose together in the online political space.

Sometimes we agreed on things as the years went by, we agreed on more and more.

I mean, not only dealing with the grief of losing her best friend, her soulmate, her husband, but then also having to deal with the hate from the likes of podcasters like Candace Owens, but others as well.

Why is this important to you?

Oh, God.

Well, you know, you caught me up on it, so I had no news, no information.

If you can transform that thing fully, I will be very, very impressed.

This is the best I can do.

You do it? And if you break it, I'm gonna have to take it out.

That's my original from 1980 for you.

The fact that our government was involved in any way is vomit disgusting, but it's all out and we don't...

And I, I think the education system actually could kind of create kind of like a hybrid partnership with private industry around that, but we're not there right now.

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Do you think that there is going to be a socialist wave of success in this midterm right before us?

Well, I can give you the white pill and the black pill on this.

The white pill version is sort of what you said a few moments ago, which is that this is just not what America is.

If more Americans hear this and see it, and particularly the, you know, we're gonna have the anniversary of 9-11, and Mamdami's gonna be there and he shouldn't be there, and I lived in New York City during 9-11, then those people don't want him there.

The more the light gets shined on socialism, communism, and again with this dash of Islamism or Jihad or whatever you want to call it, the more that I think the average American will step away from it.

So that would be the white pill version.

It's like the Republicans maybe aren't great but, know they're not commies okay something like that great branding right now the the black pill version is what you just said right there that the average that you can make the complete counter argument i'm not sure which one is right actually but the complete counter argument would be that just the average nominal apolitical person who doesn't really think about this stuff or understand history or whatever they just go about their life i'm not even judging them for it they've stayed out of this headache that they're like, oh, you know, these socialists want, you know, Medicare for all and seem to be nice or diverse or something, I'll vote for them.

That's really dangerous.

Have they taken over? Is that the, like the epicenter of where this socialism creep has come from?

Yeah, I mean, look, the inmates are running the asylum right now, and the real problem that the Democrats have, for all of the bad ideas that the Democrats have, which is pretty much everything, everything's always just bigger government, higher taxes, more inefficiency, all of that, um, I do believe that a certain set of, let's say, moderate Dems, again, they're not really moderates, but they're moderate Dems, they don't hate America.

So, like, let's say Chuck Schumer, even Nancy Pelosi, Pete Buttigieg, uh, Hakeem Jeffries, they're horrible politicians.

They have bad ideas.

They never do anything good.

But I don't think they fundamentally hate the United States of America.

I don't think they have a particularly healthy respect for our institutions.

[laughs] How do we beat it? How do the Republicans beat it here in the midterms?

Do you think that there is going to be a socialist wave of success in this midterm right before us?

Well, I can give you the white pill and the black pill on this.

The white pill version is sort of what you said a few moments ago, which is that this is just not what America is.

If more Americans hear this and see it, and particularly the, you know, we're going to have the anniversary of 9-11 and Mamdami is going to be there and he shouldn't be there and I lived in New York City during 9-11, then those people don't want him there.

The more the light gets shined on socialism, communism, and again, with this dash of Islamism or jihad or whatever you want to call it, the more that I think the average American will step away from it.

So that would be the white pill version.

It's like the Republicans maybe aren't great, but you know, they're not commies.

That's really dangerous.

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Five years.

Yeah

... or that he was lynched by two guys with MAGA hats who said, "This is MAGA country," da, da, da, and it turned out to be these b- Black brothers and that he paid, why is it that I didn't immediately fall for the hoax, yet Kamala Harris immediately tweeted out that this proves we're a white supremacist nation, and I think that's still, uh, I think that tweet is still up? Why is it that e- why is it that MSNBC fell for every hoax? Why is it that I didn't fall for all of the COVID hoaxes? By day 15, I thought, "Okay, two weeks to stop the spread.

We're, we're done now," and now they've moved on to something else.

It's not because I'm some kind of genius.

I, why did you not fall for all these hoaxes? Why did Rogan not really fall for all these hoaxes? And everyone, I'd say to some degree, we all got screwed up by COVID in some ways and, you know, I think you've even said that you, you got...

I think I ha- I think I did your first interview back after your health stuff, and you said that you got vaxxed and you thought the whole idea was now the government, uh, if I can-

It's un-

Although something seems to have turned on because I think he's starting to realize, man, he's got a legacy and he can figure it out in the next two months, and I think his legacy, if he's smart, and I don't know that he, I don't know what's left of him, but if the, if Jill and whoever else is around him that, that has sense with them, they have an incredible opportunity right now, and I hope they'll take this.

Can you tell me the moment that you went, this is no longer for me, because a lot of them off the back of just even the last week are saying this doesn't represent who I am anymore?

Yeah.

You know, a friend of mine who I used to do some writing with when I was doing stand up, he always used to say to me, Dave, we're so ahead of the curve, we're behind it.

And that's what I kind of feel like these days, because, you know, I left the left before it was cool.

And now everyone's kind of seeing this thing that I was screaming about 10 years ago.

And by the way, I wasn't the first person to do it.

Let's not forget, Ronald Reagan was a liberal Democrat.

How much rides on these midterms?

[laughs]

Is that what I've been reduced to in my career? This is really depressing.

Um, look, I don't know Talarico, and I would have to probably be in a room with him to get some sort of vibe.

I don't know that my, my gaydar works through the pipes that we're always, uh, watching these things on.

But there is something sort of effeminate about him, and this thing that, you know, Je- he said Jesus was trans and there's six genders.

I'm always a little suspicious of any of these people that buy into all of these things that we know in reality are kind of nonsensical.

Now, is there an opportunity for him if, if...

Mine is a tattooed, uh-

But it was one meme in particular that got him in trouble.

It's just a picture of then-President Trump saying, after a shooting at an Iowa high school named Perry High School, after a shooting there the day after, he said, we're all going to have to get over this, or something to that effect.

with the obvious implication that it meant perhaps we might be being a little hypocritical here, where if we have to get over it the day after a bunch of kids get killed and we're still firing people nine days later because they say something bad about this one

And this is how many of these firings have actually happened, where we've seen this coordinated campaign against left individuals speaking out in the wake of Kirk's assassination or standing up in defense of Palestine.

And that's one area in First Amendment law that needs to be addressed, is this heckler's veto that happens when politically interested but otherwise diffused groups get really interested and keyed in on something.

And if a teacher says something and their student's parents have a problem with it, maybe that's one thing.

But if some random right-wing or whatever, left-wing podcaster and all their fans don't like it.

And then they send a bunch of emails and make a bunch of calls to the school.

Well, and MAGA and how now it's softened.

Right.

So they're completely deranged by MAGA.

That was the point.

Completely, completely deranged by MAGA.

Anything that Trump does they think is evil.

What I said to one of the kids, and they're children too, that's the other thing.

You

... and you shifted? Talk about how you used to think and how you think now, and what, what was the fulcrum that moved you from one to the other?

Sure.

Well, l- let me start by saying this.

You know, w- when we met, and we only spent probably 30 seconds saying hello before we taped that episode at Roseanne's studio, you know, that was, I at that point was sort of leaving the left officially, so I didn't really consider myself a progressive anymore.

But w- what was interesting about meeting you and then subsequently interviewing you, and now we've done, you know, dozens of shows together and live events together and things of that nature, is that it was just a continuation of the road that I had been on, meaning I was in it with the lefties, and I, I will address some of the issues that I believed in that I've changed on.

Uh, but then when I started, you know, waking up, let's say, all it took was that I started having conversations with people that I disagreed with.

So I had conversations, you know.

Do you agree with that, and when do you think that shift occurred?

Pelley said nothing.

Yeah, and, and well, and Donald Trump tried to bring that up repeatedly in that infamous interview with Lesley Stahl.

You know, you could go through all of the hoaxes that we've been through, whether it's very fine people or several of the COVID things, Russia, Russia, Russia, obviously connected to the Hunter Biden laptop story, and it's not like 60 Minutes has been great on any of these, to say the least.

But at the end of the day, Barry Weiss was brought into CBS News to clean house.

They're having a ratings problem, and pr- that's aside from the journalistic integrity problem, and she's running the show now, and she's allowed to keep on people she wants to keep on, and she's allowed to get rid of people she doesn't want.

And once Pelley went after Nick Bilton, the new EP, and then went after her personally-

Yeah

... into this show to hear him," would that give you a little more of a leeway maybe to poke at the new executive producer? Probably, but I think what they will find out is they will put someone in that exact same suit he's wearing right there.

What do you think?

Well, it's definitely not a legitimate policy discussion.

Look, I think it's different with each one of them.

I, you know, I don't run around calling, uh, people anti-Semites and, and Jew-haters.

However, Tucker at this point now qualifies as an anti-Semite and a Jew-hater.

His endless obsession with not just Israel, but Jews specifically, I don't know why he's doing it.

You know, is it just purely that if you talk about the Jews, "I ca- I'm not allowed to talk about the Jews.

Do you wanna see a primary? Do you wanna see Ron DeSantis? What, how do you see this unfolding after Trump?

Yeah

... a couple things there.

Um, well, look, I, I'm completely with you on this idea that nothing will ever be the same after Trump.

You hear this a lot from people that are the kinda chattering class, like, "Oh, you know," uh, there's a couple versions of it.

One version would be Trump was sort of a necessary evil because he did wake us up to some things, but then it will go away after 'cause we won't need it anymore.

You could hear the version of, "Oh, he was just, you know, the bull in the China shop, and he destroyed everything, and now we'll never get any of it back or blah, blah, blah." I think you can make some decent arguments around some of those things.

I think what I said 10 years ago when Trump was just coming onto the stage, and I did not s- vote for him the first time around.

And when people display any kind of courage, uh, I ha- I have to give them credit, and so I give him a lot of credit for that.

But it was one meme in particular that got him in trouble.

It's just a picture of then-President Trump saying after a shooting at an Iowa high school named Perry High School, after a shooting there the day after, he said, we're all going to have to get over this or something to that effect.

with the obvious implication that it meant perhaps we might be being a little hypocritical here, where if we have to get over it the day after a bunch of kids get killed and we're still firing people nine days later because they say something bad about this one

And this is how many of these firings have actually happened, where we've seen this coordinated campaign against left individuals speaking out in the wake of Kirk's assassination or standing up in defense of Palestine.

And that's one area in First Amendment law that, like, needs to be addressed, is this heckler's veto that happens when politically interested but, like, otherwise diffused groups get really interested and keyed in on something.

And, you know, if a teacher says something and their students' parents have a problem with it, like, maybe that's one thing.

But if, like, some random... right-wing or whatever left-wing podcaster and you know all their fans don't like it and then they send a bunch of emails and make a bunch of calls to the school like that is very anti-free speech culture