The full video is on biznews.com.

Look, there's two ways of approaching it.

There's the soft diplomacy, and in an article written by Ruth Mayer and Dr. Alistair Reuters, they've explained how there's a mutual benefit for the Americans and the South Africans in terms of the economic sphere, in terms of the tourism sphere.

and in many other spheres.

And Americans, the U.S., greatly benefits from this economic relationship.

And so is South Africa.

And millions and millions of ranks flow out of South Africa to buy licenses, for example, to use um software such as microsoft also ai technologies and so forth so the americans greatly benefit from south africa and south africa benefits from the united states and that the nation should be nurtured should be protected 600 american businesses are working in south africa and operating in south africa it's a massive investment they create jobs now The American government, if they are very clever, they will say, how do we expand our economic footprint in South Africa?

But you're not going to expand your economic

term was appropriated by the Nationalist Party.

And it made it an ethno-nationalist term, excluding any other person, especially people of color.

So that's problematic in itself.

And secondly, Why would they just focus on Afrikaners? There's also English-speaking white people.

There are Portuguese-speaking people.

There's people from various other nationalities that are classified all by the previous regime and all by the ANC as white.

So that in itself is a serious, serious challenge.

So do you think this would be this kind of diplomacy, the softer diplomacy that Rolf Mayer is exercising at the moment is a more effective way to counter Washington rhetoric than a public fight would be?

Um, but what are the, the concerns about the withdrawal of PEPFAR?

On the one hand, government says it can provide the, uh, uh, the remedies, uh, themselves, the South African government, and that's good.

On the other hand, uh, the PEPFAR funding has supported a massive infrastructure, and it was well coordinated, it was well managed.

It was also monitored and evaluated by, uh, very, very strong NGOs with international ties.

And the role of the PEPFAR funding was to ensure that people, uh, and communities, uh, that are se-seriously affected by this, uh, actually take the drugs and make sure that they are kept healthy.

They launch a range of research initiatives, and it contributed to, uh, a bigger pool of knowledge at the end of the day, and this is our big challenge.

Yes, our government says, "Don't worry," but we know when the government tells you not to worry, then you have to start worrying because the bigger issue is how will this, these drugs be distributed? How will it be monitored? How will it be evaluated? And how will we ensure that there are no setbacks in terms of the people using it?

Have you received a, a response and do, do you anticipate getting one?

Um, but what are the, the concerns about the withdrawal of PEPFAR?

On the one hand, government says it can provide the, uh, uh, the remedies, uh, themselves, the South African government, and that's good.

On the other hand, uh, the PEPFAR funding has supported a massive infrastructure, and it was well coordinated, it was well managed.

It was also monitored and evaluated by, uh, very, very strong NGOs with international ties.

And the role of the PEPFAR funding was to ensure that people, uh, and communities, uh, that are s- seriously affected by this, uh, actually take the drugs and make sure that they are kept healthy.

They launched a range of research initiatives, and it contributed to, uh, a bigger pool of knowledge at the end of the day, and this is our big challenge.

Yes, our government says, "Don't worry," but we know when the government tells you not to worry, then you have to start worrying because the bigger issue is how will this, these drugs be distributed? How will it be monitored? How will it be evaluated? And how will we ensure that there are no setbacks in terms of the people using it?

Have you received a, a response, and do, do you anticipate getting one?

Explain to us how do you make that link, and what specific mechanisms do you believe would collapse first in the healthcare system if the PHI's withdrawal goes ahead?

The reasons that the US government advances in terms of, uh, why they have actually embarked on this process of cutting the PEPFAR assistance, uh, is absolutely shocking in our view because, uh, it has little to do with, uh, healthcare that is urgently needed for approximately eight million sufferers of HIV and AIDS.

Uh, the, uh, reasons obviously has to do with, uh, things like genocides that are happening in South Africa, also our relationship with Iran, and then in addition, the, uh, regulations and so forth.

So what we are saying is let that-- leave that, those things, to the government of national unity to sort out.

We come from a particular past, and it's a complex past.

It's an apartheid-based past, and we need to have redress in many ways and, uh, let a court decide on the merits of those things.

Uh, but to then link those to, um, the, uh, need for, uh, medical assistance or health assistance, uh, is absolutely immoral in our view.

So you call, you call for decoupling humanitarian health funding from diplomatic disputes, but what concrete safeguards would the foundation propose so that PEPFAR support can continue even when Pretoria and Washington disagree politically?