want me to help you get help or would you prefer? But I love what you said about just this idea of curiosity, actually sitting down with your child to say, could you explain it to me? Could you tell me what it feels like? Because I think it's really difficult for a mom who has never been anxious or depressed to support her child well when she doesn't understand the experience.

Yeah, for sure.

And then even to go along with what Hope said, I've recently been with my daughter.

It's like they get in this time where you have been scheduling all the doctor's appointments, all the things Hope just talked about has been your responsibility.

So then as you back away from that, I've even, for myself, have tried to ask her questions like, okay, so you said you might want to see this doctor.

Do you want me to schedule that? Would you like to schedule that? Do you want to go by yourself? Would you rather I was with you? Because in my mind, I'm like, I'm going with you.

I'm scheduling.

How can she become safe?

You can't separate those out one from the other.

That's right.

Yeah.

The first time, talk about nerding out, the first time I learned about neuroplasticity and the fact that our brains can change, I just was like, I mean, I just thought, what is happening right now? How do we not know about this? It is amazing.

Our brains are amazing.

And I think in order to truly understand before we get all the way to treatment or even in naming things and diagnosis, we've got to go all the way back to creation.

And think about the fact that God did create us as embodied humans, and he doesn't separate these things in creation.

What can the church do better to help support people who do need some level of professional therapy and still feed them spiritually?

And then... not all anxiety and depression is sin, right? Y'all like help me, help me.

Yes.

Sometimes it's both.

This is what's hard.

And you know, this is not just anxiety and depression, by the way, this is all over the Bible is tension.

So in the Bible doesn't resolve it because, and we want it to be resolved, but it just won't.

It makes us live in the tension.

What's our hope?

We hate it.

It's terrible.

It's that terrible sharp thing.

She was very gentle, though.

And she starts to scrape the tartar away.

Now, if I sat in that chair and she said to me, you know, Chris, you really have a lot of tartar here.

It is going to start to damage your gums and all kinds of bad things are going to happen.

So what does biblical hope look like when you feel like nothing's changing? Yeah.