It was the end.

It was.

And there she went.

And I literally had to grab Jen.

I think Chris was talking to me, and I was like, go, go, go.

Because, you know, once it starts, if you don't, like, shut it down with, like, my dog died, my someone died, and get your body to, like, seep back up, you're done.

And I was like, I missed the moment.

So then we get into the elevator and we're both like... you know because i'm sure someone got into the elevator with i'm like suck it up somebody died shut up you know

So what does healthy support look like when your adult child is anxious or depressed? And when does helping start to become rescuing? What's a healthy way to support, literally support your anxious or depressed child?

Yeah, I think you start with finding out, letting them describe to you what's going on for them, how that feels to them and their body, how that's affecting their day, what is it doing to their sleep? Just ask them baseline questions.

And then you ask them, Do they want help with that? Do they do they want you to enter in and help with that? So often as moms, we don't ask that question.

We just say, oh, I'm going to help with that.

As opposed to they may not or they might be like, I'm OK with it.

I'm managing it fine.

I don't want you to put me in counseling or give me a name of a doctor or you know what I'm saying.

So this idea of agency, would you just mind describing that quickly?

What do you want people to know to lower the barrier to that, to make it more accessible and easy to reach out and say, okay, maybe I'll, I'll give this a try and see if I need to get some help.

Well, I think for Christians in particular, where I see the resistance is usually because they feel like they're going to dishonor God somehow.

That they're either dishonoring him, that they're struggling with depression or anxiety in the first place because they feel like, isn't that a heart issue? Or is my thoughts not right? That's my own problem, right? Because we see that so much in the scripture, the scripture encouraging us to submit those things to Christ.

And so I think sometimes they feel like going to a therapist feels like they're dishonoring the Lord somehow, or they're jumping into some area that's not under his umbrella, as opposed to seeing that God uses all these things in order to To bring redemption and push against things that are broken in us, just like he uses you, you know, in your practice.

And in that moment with the with the patient who has strep, you know, they were so thankful for those antibiotics.

God is doing the same work when he equips.

You know, clinicians, mental health professionals with skills and tools and understanding the human heart and mind and how to help it in this particular area of suffering.

What are the consequences of waiting? And what are the advantages of just going earlier? Mm hmm.

So, so how did you come to know Christ? What's that story for you?

Ooh.

Um, when I was a senior in high school, I dated someone who was a Jehovah's witness and they were like, we don't celebrate Christmas.

We don't celebrate this.

And I was like, what do you mean? Everybody does.

And you're not going to buy me a present.

I mean, I was, you know, a high school girl.

Every situation is nuanced, but just kind of give us like a good overarching, like how should we be thinking about medication specifically from a theological biblical as believers? How do we think about medication in this realm of anxiety and depression?

You're like, yes and amen.

Yes and amen.

And I think that there's something where when it comes to, I've seen Christians be fearful of medication, fearful of psychology as if it's kind of like witchcraft or demonic or, you know, I've seen all kinds of stuff.

And as opposed to like, as Chris talked about, a gift from the Lord to push against the fall.

He doesn't like it.

He doesn't want our brains to not have enough serotonin.

He doesn't want our brains to lack dopamine or things into where we have a hard time connecting with him, praying to him, and we want to die.

Anything you want to add, Hope? Well,

Well, hope, what does Chris do when she is really, really excited about a new idea?

Oh, well, first of all, the ideas that she is most excited about is something that she has learned in the scripture.

Always.

And so she will get on Boxer and she usually says this to us.

Okay, y'all may not have time to listen to this, so put it on four times speed, which Jen and I are always like, we're not.

We're always going to have it at like one or two, but okay.

But she says that every time.

because I