That's about the nicest thing I've ever said to you.

Well, thank you.

And by the way, it's the evolution of his game to get to superstar status in point production.

But it's not only the point production.

He plays a dry side of McDavid on power play, plays a lot even strength.

He's always in offensive situations.

But it's more about his well-rounded game and I think his commitment to the defensive zone.

Chris, what did you think of the Conor Hellebuck trade today?

You know what I'm saying? They wanted this.

Well, abs- a- absolutely.

I think, you know, especially when you got elite talent like they have, and then you, you want everybody to be coached.

You wanna, you wanna see the development of the team.

You wanna see guys continue to evolve and grow in, A, their roles and, B, uh, you know, th- their skill sets and, and, and position them in, into roles where they can, A, excel and then, B, the next layer and level to their, to their games.

And that obviously elevates the team, especially when you have guys that are driven as much as those top-end guys are to win and win championships and, and wanna bring a Stanley Cup back to Edmonton.

You, you wanna be pushed as much as you ...

So is there room for more growth in Bouchard's game? Absolutely, right?

Mm-hmm

...

it allows him to see them together and what they can do.

And then, you know, knowing Mike, it allows him to kinda, you know, step off the gas a little bit and, and try different combinations.

And, you know, again, if one of these guys happens to get hurt, he's gonna be able to sub some of these other guys in and figure out what other line combinations he has, who's going, who's not, you know, all the rest of that as the season progresses.

And, uh, you know, I think it, it's also a, a good start to understanding, you know, the structure he wants to put into place and, and getting them into those moments where the bad habits creep in so he can, again, try to correct and, and just continue to put his thumb on it to try to, you know, get them playing the way that he wants them to play and the way the players want to be coached and played.

... was there ever a guy you didn't know that much [laughs] that turned out to join your team and be a hell of a player and really impact you guys in a positive manner?

Oh, man.

Um, in a cap system, especially when you have s- top-end superstar players, when you lose four of your top seven forwards, it's not an excuse, but it does become a factor, doesn't it?

Well, your depth, you know, that's, that's what we're talking about really is your depth.

And, and if those four players specifically that you're talking about are in the lineup, they are a much deeper team.

Players now are pushed further down the lineup with more favorable match-ups and, and now the, the, the, the line combinations, the match-ups, how you're gonna play, who you can rely on, how you can move players around, you know, you, you can move Draisaitl off McDavid, and you can bump players around in order to move ice time around as we've discussed and talked about, and we've heard them talk about all summer.

Uh, you know, depth becomes an issue.

As you talked about w- in a salary cap world, when you have top-end talent that are making a lot of money, it, depth is the issue when you, when you have injuries.

And, and that, and especially when, you know, and this is specifically with Edmonton because they have been pushing for so long under the McDavid era, they've traded away a lot of depth at the deadline trying to get over the hump and win a Stanley Cup and, and get to the promised land and, and that affects that depth two, three, four years down the line, which is where we are now.

Yes

And obviously the emotions probably just get the best of you in those final moments.

Yeah.

You know, I guess the easiest way I can kind of answer this is, The compounding of, you know, you talk about the summers.

Through Al, I met my trainer, Charles Poliquin, and coming out of 97, 98, I was nominated for Norris Trophy.

So 95, 96, I get to St. Louis.

I'm getting booed.

It's a disaster.

And what did you think about first after you made the decision?

Did you ever see him doing this? See him being a GM one day?

Yeah, I think he, he, You know, he's a very deep thinker, very analytical.

You know, I think people don't realize how gritty of a player he was.

You know, he obviously scored some big goals, but in those big moments and the grit and resilience that he showcased throughout the course of his career, certainly brought him to those big moments.

And now being in that chair as the general manager of the Philadelphia Flyers, I think people are starting to see a little bit of that moxie and that ability to make bold moves and maybe outside-of-the-box thinking that is going to be needed to kind of get them back to the promised land.

I think if we're looking at some of the moves or potential moves in the offseason, you know, having the ability to try to make a bold move and sign Leo Carlson to an offer sheet.

While it didn't work, I think it speaks volumes to the commitment that he has, you know, Comcast has to trying to bring a winner back to Philadelphia.

What has that been like from your perspective?

Yeah

... every step of the way, I bet on myself.

And, and most of the time went, uh, in a non-conforming path, where I went counter to what was the easy way or the proper way or the, the right way to do things.

I went the opposite.

You know, and when I tell people [laughs] I played high school hockey in Canada, they're like, "What? You did what?" I'm like, "Yeah, I played two years high school," and, uh, and didn't play triple A and then went on...

You know, went down and played junior B and then, you know, was gonna go play college hockey, and decided to go to junior.

And I just, uh, every step of the way, it was about challenging myself and, uh, you know, moving up a level.

... or what?

Um, how did you kind of bet on yourself, and, and what does that mean to really kind of i- invest in yourself and the kind of your own skill and talent and that you thought you were gonna get noticed?

Yeah, I think for me, I, I seem to always take maybe, uh, either the road less traveled or one that I felt was going to be...

Uh, I didn't look at hockey as a job.

I didn't look at...

I, I just enjoyed playing, and I wanted to have fun, and my brother played AAA hockey and traveled a ton and, and, you know, they'd take 10, 12, 14-hour bus rides and, you know, the toll that that takes on a family and, and, and on him and, you know, schooling and all the rest of that.

And, um, I, when it was kind of my turn to make that decision and, uh, I, I just, I wanted to enjoy my, my high school career, if you will, and my high school time and play with my friends, and I knew we were gonna have a good team.

I knew I was gonna learn a lot.

Yeah, it wasn't a sport science back then.

Yes

... flipping that script, and Shanny was kind of becoming the face of the franchise and the star player, so to speak.

And, uh, you know, they loved the way that he played: tough, physical, goal scorer.

Uh, and, and so for me, I came in, I had no idea the pressure.

Again, blind to, you know, I got my horse blinders on to what's going on [laughs] around me, and didn't realize, uh, the hornet's nest that I had, uh, walked into.

Came in in terrible shape, [laughs] wasn't prepared at all.

And, you know, again, kind of taking things for granted, taking my skill for granted, and, uh, showed up out of shape, struggled mightily, and, uh, was booed relentlessly on home ice until really, uh, about, you know, halfway through the year.

What was the process like of retraining your eye to function properly and dealing with all those post-concussion symptoms?

Where's your head at?

Yeah.

I think, uh, I've been on all, all walks of this, uh, conversation.

Early in my career, renegotiated my contract because the team wanted me to, uh, when I got traded from Hartford to St. Louis.

Uh, obviously asked out, uh, in Edmonton.

It's been well talked about as, as we've discussed.

And then now here with these no-move clauses, we're asking players, and, and I'll give both sides of the, the equation.

Because if I sit and wait, this is too important to let pass by." Do you think there's been an element of that because of the gold medal?

Obviously, you guys are kind of separate from that, but it, it's impossible not to feel when you're in Edmonton-

Yeah

And, uh, and it w- your guys' was a little more Cinderella story and, and, uh, which can obviously be a little more fun, too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I think, you know, with, with Connor and Leon and the teams, the teams that they had, they, they've had some playoff success and some playoff runs, not getting that far.

So it was, to your point, I think it was expected.

And, and this one, they hadn't been in the playoffs in a long time.

And your guys was a little more Cinderella story, which can obviously be a little more fun too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I think, you know, with Connor and Leon and the teams, the teams that they had, they've had some playoff success and some playoff runs not getting that far.

So it was to your point, I think it was expected.

And this one, they hadn't been in the playoffs in a long time.

I think they'd only won the one that Todd Marshall scored that.

Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes on YouTube.

Yeah.

So they've got a lot of comfort and an understanding of how to play in front of him, too.

It's not like they're just grabbing a guy that hasn't played in a long time.

Yes, understand playoffs, but you know, he played a, a lot throughout the course of the regular season for them.

So, um, you know, he's not going in there cold.

And, and I think they have, you know, in their minds, I think they have a 1A/1B.

I don't think going into the playoffs that they thought Freddie, they, was gonna go on that type of run.

Any edge either way as we go into this best of three, Prongs?

After that experience, did, do you have a better semblance than the rest of us on what the direction of this team is and, and where they feel they're going in the near future?

Yeah, I don't...

You know, I think that's where I don't, I don't necessarily...

I can't speak to that 'cause I think, you know, it depends on what John Chaika told them, what, what they liked about him, what they thought, uh, his plan looked like and, and if it made a lot of sense.

I do like, you know, the hires that he's made thus far.

Um, you know, obviously win- [laughs] winning the, the draft lottery helps.

[laughs] You know, that, that adds to the, uh, mystique of his, uh, you know, early tenure here in, in Toronto.

Do you think that that would inevitably mean that they're going in a certain direction and a lot more changes with the Maple Leafs would have to happen after that? Or do you think they're gonna get rid of Knies, bring in some prospects and picks, and still la-di-da along with, with Matthews and Nylander?

Yes.

I mean, there's no-- Last time I checked, you couldn't get drafted when you were nine years old.

And so, you know, with respect to that, like, l- if you wanna go some, you know...

We always had one or two big away, you know, tournaments that we went to.

You know, for us, we didn't go that far.

But, you know, I think for, for those that are, are, are capable of doing it, sure, you can have one or two good road trips where it's fun for the kids.

They get to play against...

Was it always that way for you, Chris, or did you have to learn that somewhere along your journey?

Just your whole take on everything that's gone on there.

Yeah.

I've been, you know, this year I've been fortunate enough to be in Denver a few times where they've played really, really well, and also really, really bad.

And they're not overly tight defensively.

And, and they take a lot of chances, they take a lot of risks, they play very loose.

They're not structurally sound that you need to be in, in the playoffs.

And if you look at, you know, their, their LA series was really tight, albeit they won four games in a row, but they were tight games.

Go ahead, Prongs.

Is it as simple as Montreal is a young team, they've got skill, uh, they've got mobility in the back end? To break that Carolina system, do they have to skate through the neutral zone? Is it more puck possession? Like w- how do you break Carolina with, a team that's so disciplined and is, and is so tight systematically?

They, they have to be able to handle the pressure in a way that they can make plays.

They have to be able to transition and exit the defensive zone through the neutral zone with puck possession so that they're then dumping with a purpose, able to forecheck properly, apply their own pressure, which frankly Carolina doesn't handle very well because they're not used to it, because they're used to always being on the attack and always being the aggressor.

And so if you're able to, at l- in the, in the games where I saw Carolina struggle the most is when they weren't able to just consistently apply pressure and, and force the opposition into uncomfortable situations.

And so it'll be imperative for the puck movers on the back end for, for the, the Montreal Canadiens, the Dobsons, Matheson, Hutson, uh, those guys to be able to, A, use their feet to create passing lanes or get out of trouble, and then make quick transition plays to, you wanna come low and be very supportive, uh, from, from your forwards and centermen, so that you're able to then come up with speed in five-man units and not get stretched out, which, which then the Carolina Hurricanes attack from.

Just your whole take on everything that's gone on there.

Yeah.

I've been, you know, this year I've been fortunate enough to be in Denver a few times where they've played really, really well and also really, really bad.

Just your whole take on everything that's gone on there.

Yeah.

I've been ...

You know, this year I've been fortunate enough to be in Denver a few times where they've played really, really well, and also really, really bad.

And they're not- Overly tight defensively.

And, and they take a lot of chances, they take a lot of risks, they play very loose.

They're not structurally sound that you need to be in, in the playoffs.

Go ahead, Prongs.

Right

...

Cassidy has looked at that.

I don't know Bruce as well as I do Lavvy.

But he's gonna push you to get the most out of you you possibly can get.

And as we know and as we've seen, that grinds on players, that wears players down, and they start to tune him out.

But for that window, you've seen the success he's had in taking teams to Stanley Cup Finals.

That is a massive absence in their lineup, isn't it?

... and, and being seen as the villain from your fans' eyes?

Yeah.

It, it, I, it, it hardened me, [laughs] to say the least.

You know, I think those first three years were incredibly difficult, uh, but allowed me to grow up, allowed me to, to form the grit and resilience that I was gonna need later on in my career when I was dealing with major injury, when I was trying to, you know, help my various teams get, get to Stanley Cup and, and hopefully win, and was able to do it one time.

And, uh, you know, I think it just that, the struggle and, and to your point, that internal dialogue you have with yourself and the victimhood mentality that you have, that it's their fault, it's, uh, you know, your teammate's fault, the coach's fault, it's the owner's fault, it's everybody else's fault but your own.

And ultimately, once, uh, you know, I was able to turn the page on that and, and kinda take ownership and accountability for my play, for, you know, my decisions, you know, not coming into camp in great shape and, and all the rest of that stuff, uh, you know, once I was able to kind of, you know, understand what w- what it was gonna take to be a true pro, uh, and, and form the, the habits and the discipline that was necessary, uh, then, you know, I started to really understand.

And, and you start realizing when you're going through those moments, you're young and you're like, "Ah, this is, this is bullshit.

It was.

D- what do you see that the way he played that he brings to this team? Because they're motherfuckers out there.

Well, uh, as everybody knows, he played hard, a highly competitive... [clears throat] You know, I think, but, but from a, a, a grit standpoint, but then showing, showing up in key moments and, and being accountable.

Um, you know, I think that's something that I see with their team that maybe they were lacking more so than anything else.

It's just the accountability to one another and, you know, playing, playing the system, but then playing hard every single night and every single shift.

It, it's, you know, it becomes contagious and, and, and you're seeing that, I think, in-Him not caving maybe into the pressures of the fan base with the development of Matvei Michkov and some of the other younger players in, in forcing them to kinda learn the system and the structure that he wants them to play with.

Without, you know, as they now understand that and they kinda take hold of that, without eliminating their offensive capabilities.

You know, I think playing tight defensively, they get quick stops, they get in transition, their defense score gets it up quick and then tho- those forwards, they can move.

He's Chris Pronger, dude.

But do you think they're getting back to being the team where, you know, culture mattered and family mattered and things like that?

I think when you look at the current roster, I think you see how they've come together.

You know, I think you bring a, uh, longtime Flyer like Rick Tocchet back in as head coach.

You've got Jonesy, who understands.

You got Danny B, who understands.

You've got other people within the organization that have been around the Flyers a long time.

Um, you know, I think they certainly understand what the Flyers fan base is looking for.

And I was curious, from your perspective, what is the mental shift that happens between game 82 of the regular season and the first game of the playoffs? Like, what is the change that happens in the way that you approach the game when that puck drops on the first game of the playoffs?

How, as a twenty year old, did you take that experience and use it, you know, as your career went forward?

I think now you know why I am how I am.

[laughs] You know, I think when you go through moments like that, that type of, of, of adversity and, and that, uh, those moments where you're beaten into the ground, you're, you're struggling on any number of levels, you know, personally, professionally, uh, searching for answers as to how to, you know, scratch and claw your way out of it.

But, um, it is, uh, [laughs] to be able to go through those moments, those early struggles, come out the other side, learn from it, adapt from it, evolve, grow, become the player I became, nothing after that, nothing after having to deal with the... what felt like, yeah, I'm sure it wasn't, but what felt like the whole crowd coming down on top of you on-- in, in your home building, uh, is very defeating.

It, it, it is punishing in the sense that from a mental perspective, uh, I don't know if there's much worth-worse than being booed on home ice, y-personally.

You know, you may despise, or, or maybe that's a strong word, be unhappy with how your team is performing on any given day or any given moment.

That's to be expected.

Um, from your perspective, Chris, like, how do you kind of view this young Blackhawks team, where they're at right now, kind of the direction they're, they're going and, you know, maybe from, from your experience being a young player with so many expectations to kinda how this group is kind of shouldering things now as they try and get out of the rebuild stage?

What does that mean?

It means what are your non-negotiables? What do you live up to every single day? And in my case, you know, when I had that, if you read the book, you'll learn that I met with a sports psychologist midway through my third year pro first in St.

Louis where I was struggling mightily and met with him.

And that was one of the first questions out of his mouth were, what are your standards? And I sat there dumbfounded because I didn't have any.

I just loved to play the game, knew how to play the game and was passionate about playing the game.

But in those moments where we don't feel good or we're under duress or struggling, you know, I would wilt or I would not play to the best of my abilities.

And so as I thought about that question and then the ensuing questions as he peeled back the onion layers, I set out three very simple standards.

What do you think of the matchup?

How did that kind of resonate with you during that time in your career that led you to say, OK, hold on a second, I got to make a change?

Yeah, so then I get traded from Hartford to St. Louis.

Again, traded for a fan favorite, 50 goal score, star player on the Blues at the time.

I didn't, again, not realizing expectations, not realizing who I got traded for.

You know, a little naive to what's kind of going on around me.

And again, get booed on home ice and, you know, I'm falling apart.

I'm in a deep, dark hole, depressed, a lot of anxiety, you know, really struggling with pro sports with all of it.

Yeah, well, my