Yeah.

Sorry, I'm a, a longtime listener.

Um, but I know that you said recently you'd spoken to him, and it's very clear from him being here that despite, of course, the fact that they've attracted a lot of negative publicity, he seems really happy.

Every time I've seen him, he's, he's chatting away and he genuinely looks a lot more relaxed than he ever did in America.

And I think that he's f- come back to exactly what he wanted to do.

Meghan is less interested in that sort of work, but she will turn up when it's something that she does have a connection with, for example, the, um, today with, in the, you know, the community kitchen with the, the women from the hub community kitchen that she wrote the book with.

And I think that otherwise it's going to be as ever and as, as I say, acting.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

But meeting the king, this incredible totemic moment that absolutely everybody's been waiting for and yet we know nothing about it and we've seen nothing of it.

Well, that's the key point.

And I think that I can speak for both of us when I say on a personal note, as royal journalists, obviously, I want to know every single thing that happened in that meeting.

But critically, for this new era of the Sussex and the royal reconciliation to really continue in any way, this was a trust exercise.

So the fact that we don't know means that that's so far is holding.

I say so far because there are often leaks after, you know, even years on from these things.

But at the moment, I think both parties understand what's at stake.

Why did I make it into a question?

In fact, no police anywhere.

So it doesn't appear there's been an update.

I know you've been following this closely, and I saw that piece you had, um, with the report about the threats, specific threats.

It was fascinating.

Of course, yes, as you say, it's from, it's, it's from their side.

I, I think, uh, more broadly, I think there is as well a ...

I understand the argument that he's brought some of it, you know, they, they, he could have brought some potential threat onto himself in recent years with, you know, discussing the Taliban, uh, killings in his book and, you know, i- in b- b- with some of the revelations he's made, you know, ever since leaving the country.

Yeah

Mm

... uh, in reconnecting with the UK.

I have said a number of times, and I think we spoke about this when I was here last, that Harry has been leaning towards more frequent visits to the UK.

He misses it a lot.

He said it himself, but it's also what I've heard from people around him for some time.

That in itself then is not shocking.

I suppose that he would want to live here for a period of time.

Uh, what is the thought process, Bronte, on just saying, "Hey, family, we're walking back in." How, how does that, how does that work?

Mm-hmm

... now we don't know what happened behind closed doors.

I do know that they, of course, publicly called for accountability, uh, in these areas they felt they'd been wronged, uh, while they were here in Britain.

I can't imagine that that has happened.

Uh, that's from nothing I have heard has indicated that that has happened.

Instead, it does feel as though Harry's tone, as I mentioned, had publicly changed and softened somewhat.

I've previously likened this to sort of an ugly breakup.

But it does seem like Harry and Meghan have a very hard time following anyone's rules but their own.

Well, is, is Martha Stewart right? Is she, is she right in what she says where we're, we're, we're, where Meghan cannot do this?

Well, this is the thing.

The only way to quieten your critics is to prove them wrong with your success.

And Meghan hasn't done that yet.

You know, with ...

The only thing she has left really of this, um, this lifestyle guru career is As Ever.

Now, that's the curious part because it's almost impossible to find out where that's actually sitting, what, 12 months on, uh, in terms of its success.

Mm

Do you, do you think we should? Do you think we should be told? Because-

As journalists I want to know what happened, obviously, but ...

And because, like there's a natural curiosity.

But of course it's the right thing that it's stayed private, and it's so deliberate the fact that the palace was the one controlling that information.

Nothing further was released.

It's happened.

Because the speculation was rife.

[laughs] Well, she, well, she never seems to turn up when Harry's in trouble, does she?

And let's not forget that the King advised his son not to take on Associated Newspapers.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And, but also it'll be really interesting to see what happens with these other relationships with the other, um, complainants in this court case.

We're all hearing that it's been a bit strained between Harry and Sir Elton John.

I'm worried about, I'm, I'm worried about how Doreen Lawrence is gonna afford, you know, her share of the 50 million pound court costs.

It ...

I don't see your relevance on the world stage." And I'm wondering where he sees himself now.

I mean, how does it make you feel, the fact that Charles has revealed his tax? What, what's the reason behind it? Why do we need to know?

Well, I think it's, the, the context of why it's happening now, I think is very important.

There has never been more scrutiny on the royal family and, and more calls for transparency, and I think a lot of it stems from issues in recent years, particularly around Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor and his former, uh, official role, and the fact that this is now getting scrutiny that it, that it had never had before.

I think, I think that, uh, the King and also William have realized that now is an excellent time to get on the front foot, uh, with this sort of detail, and I do applaud that.

I think it's important, uh, that they, they do see that, a- and this is what has been, uh, you know, briefed out there as well, is that he's, they, they want to start an era of, of more transparency.

This is part of that greater drive, and I think it is a crucial thing.

With that said, it does also raise questions.

We'll get onto Buckingham Palace in a minute.

But are there gonna be other engagements? What, what do you think we can expect?

Well, this is the million-dollar question.

As you say, after I broke the news, and I waited till of course I knew that for certain, but outside of that, details about what is actually going to unfold have been very hard to pin down, and I believe that is for security reasons.

However, a lot of people were really surprised by this news, but I have to be honest, I wasn't really, because what we saw in Australia earlier this year I think was the dummy run for, for what we're probably going to see when, uh, the Sussexes get into town, which is that sort of half in, half out, uh, they will be doing personal, uh, activities, but also they'll be taking care of their philanthropic and charity, uh, commitments as well.

And we know that Har- uh, Harry is still well-connected of course with the Invictus, uh, Games, which is what he, that's the centerpiece of this whole visit.

We can expect them in Birmingham for those, uh, activities.

But also, he's still connected with Scotty's Little Soldiers and WellChild, and I think we probably will see him then popping up there.

That must be putting enormous strain between, on the relationship between William and Charles.

drawn to it like a moth to a flame?

drawn to it.

I think it's evolved over time exactly as Ingrid was saying but in this modern era and certainly there are less of the younger generation of royals but the excitement around these appearances and I can tell you even from watching on around the globe in Australia and other places we get really excited at seeing these events unfold because it is something that's so unique to Britain.

And there are this flurry of events that are on.

And they're all very exciting.

There's a lot of color.

They're all out on display.

But I mean, it is super, super pageantry, isn't it, Bronte? I mean, this is when you see it's the horses and the carriages and everybody in uniform.

Do you think he's dealt with, with the Andrew situation in the right way, and how should he deal with, with Andrew going forward if these, if these, you know, police investigations do end up resulting in charges?

I think it has been dealt with the right way.

We were...

There was so much conversation.

I know we discussed it on the show, Matt, last year before the King's statement in October which stripped Andrew of the titles.

And I think there was a lot of fair conversation at that point that the palace had been too slow to act on Andrew.

I think it was a, it was a slow, um, drip feed of, of that.

So I think even, even, you know, Invictus is not the unalloyed success that it once was.

Does feel very much like a set piece royal photo op.

op.Oh, absolutely.

And look, uh, there were a lot of people, I will say that, there really were a lot of people showing up to see them in that moment.

But I- it was exactly as you say, there was ...

It was much more royal tour-y than anything they've done in the past.

But again, I think that's because they have sort of used this as a dummy run to see how this would go in the future.

And, you know, f- as I say, s- from speaking to sources close to them, I know that what they're trying to do now and what they want to do is blend their philanthropic and charity engagements with the commercial aspects, which, uh, of course most people will remember was basically what they pitched when they first quit royal duties back in 2020 and were told no, uh, by the late Queen.

My, my final, final question, Bronte, is just what do you think this looks like from, you know, William and Kate's perspective, from the palace's perspective? You know, what's, what's the British royal view of Harry and Meghan doing this?

What happened there?

Well, I tripped over her first.

That footage was not caught, but it was a very chaotic moment.

So she was laying there on the beach and just refused to move.

And you know what? She had a day off and power to her.

But you're right.

That scene was an interesting one because, of course, we've spoken so much about Harry's concerns over security.

You're going to hospital and you're meeting children who are seriously ill. You're going to Bondi Beach where people were gunned down by a terrorist and then you're standing there in a thing going, oh, people have said nasty things about me online.

He's left it right up to the end, hasn't he?

Right up to the end, and it does feel just like classic Andrew at this point.

He's always dragged his heels on all of this, but for it to be the Easter deadline, and then, as you say, there are reports that he has now left, but it appears to have been on Easter Monday.

So, by the way, just ruling out any family that may have wanted to stay at Wood Farm, which they often do around Easter, Edward and Sophie in particular.

And interesting you say that Edward was the first royal to visit him.

He was also the first royal to speak publicly about all the drama surrounding the latest Epstein files and Andrew's relationship to that earlier this year when he spoke in Dubai about it and said we need to remember the victims.

So in terms of there being friction within the family, you're exactly right.

And I suppose if he came here, he would get it as well, but not in the same fashion as he expects it to be given.

But does that sound an accurate depiction?

Well, it feeds in a little bit really with what we were just talking about with the Variety article again, which is that Meghan is the dominating force in the relationship.

But I think that the passion behind these statements that they've been releasing to try to squash these stories, which as you say, has had the opposite effect.

It does feel like there is a sense that they're, once again, similar to when they left the royal family, trying to get their narrative out and get their side of the story out.

Because I think that they are, again, at a very difficult juncture where her business, she's just split with Netflix, with the As Ever partnership.

There is no third season of With Love, Megan.

Harry, we're not quite sure what he's doing for the next year or so and onwards.

Well, it is.

And it later turned, later transpired that even the king and the palace didn't find out about this arrest un- until it happened.

But this is part of the whole story from here on out, and it goes to the crisis that the royal family is in.

They need to be seen, as the king said, this, this legal process now needs to play out in a way that doesn't look like Andrew is getting any special treatment at all.

And in the same way the royal family not getting that notice, that's part of that.

Andrew is being treated as a regular citizen who is under suspicion of wrongdoing.

And so it was an incredibly dramatic day because of that.

I think that we've seen over the years, bar some, some major flashpoints, the royal family does have a lot of control over the narrative and, and then can plan out their responses to things from there.

Mm.

Now interesting it says, I'll, I'll read this out to you because, while William and Catherine were deeply concerned, um, this statement says, "The King has made it clear in words through unprecedented actions his profound concern at allegations which continue to come to light in respect of Mr. Mountbatten-Windsor's conduct." The King went a little bit further, but is that still enough for you?

Oh, this is such a complicated one.

As you said, we have now seen that Andrew categorically lied to the public.

We know that from the interviews and the statements he put out previously.

I think that in October when the King took the action then, that was the appropriate action, assuming that Andrew was giving him the same story as he was giving the rest of us.

Uh, and he, and he took quite decisive action.

As this story moves along, and it's moving very fast, I think this hasn't quite met the moment.

So how would the royal family continue or s- would the royal family continue and survive if, say, for instance, what Andrew M- Mountbatten-Windsor continues to deny, he was arrested, seen in handcuffs, in court, jailed?

And there's a bit of debate, as we're talking about the premiere that we went to, there was a bit of debate as to whether they managed to sell out the seats for this premiere.

And you've done Sundance, yeah? I did Cannes last year.

Oh, you've done Cannes.

So I haven't been to Sundance.

It's a similar sort of setup.

You know, you premiere your films and they go to market and people get into bidding wars over them.

And we'll see who buys Cookie Queens.

It was almost like we don't mind this message getting out because it makes the king look like he's standing up for the United Kingdom.