Because I think we really do rip people apart about how they provide grief support.

Yeah, totally.

I feel like the more generous we can be, the better.

And the reality is we have a tremendously...

We really lack angry fluency, right? We don't know how, it is not baked into our cultural norms, speaking in massive cultural broad strokes, right? This is not, this would never be true for all people in this country, you know.

There's an endless nuance here, but as a society at large, we don't center grief or grief experiences.

So we don't have like the musculature really for how to show up for one another in these spaces consistently.

Well, that's a perfect segue into the next question that we wanted to talk about was what practices have you seen that are most helpful for folks like us who are working in the end-of-life space, palliative care and hospice? What have you found most helpful in honoring those losses while we're continuing to care for other people, our patients, our clients, and for ourselves at the same time?

What kinds of needs do you guys find patients and families have that the current health care system doesn't address? So where are those gaps that you're addressing?

It's like big breath because there's so many.

I think we could go down so many roads with this question, but I think... and Sonia knows that this is sort of my bend, I feel like we do not do grief justice, right? We have, and it's part of why we think about illness, grief, and dying is that we have landed grief on the other side of death, right? We have sort of packaged it as the response to a death, to bereavement.

We've made grief and bereavement synonymous.

And I think that what we know about the experience of illness and bodies changing is that even before diagnosis, this is a grief process because something is different.

And maybe we have the language for it, and maybe we don't, and maybe we get more precise in our understanding about what's happening, but it kicks off perpetual change.

And that might come rapidly.

But then I think, you know, how does how does that get implemented? Who are the people who would do that? within those hospice spaces so there's you know there's the i know that most places would love to do more things you know for for caregiver groups for the people who are attending to the patients who are dying and it's it's hard so i just want to recognize that too is like we get to make this thing that the way that we want to because we're outside of the health care system but there's a lot of there's a lot of regulatory and restriction within that makes it difficult I

What kinds of needs do you guys find patients and families have that the current health care system doesn't address? So where are those gaps that you're addressing?

It's like big breath because there's so many.

I think we could go down so many roads with this question, but I think... and Sonia knows that this is sort of my bend, I feel like we do not do grief justice, right? We have, and it's part of why we think about illness, grief, and dying is that we have landed grief on the other side of death, right? We have sort of packaged it as the response to a death, to bereavement.

We've made grief and bereavement synonymous.

And I think that what we know about the experience of illness and bodies changing is that even before diagnosis, this is a grief process because something is different.

And maybe we have the language for it, and maybe we don't, and maybe we get more precise in our understanding about what's happening, but it kicks off perpetual change.

And that might come rapidly.

But then I think, you know, how does how does that get implemented? Who are the people who would do that? within those hospice spaces so there's you know there's the i know that most places would love to do more things you know for for caregiver groups for the people who are attending to the patients who are dying and it's it's hard so i just want to recognize that too is like we get to make this thing that the way that we want to because we're outside of the health care system but there's a lot of there's a lot of regulatory and restriction within that makes it difficult I

How do you describe that missing metal, and how does metal try to fill it?

So mental health provides virtual care and accompaniment for those facing illness, grief, and dying.

And it's big.

Like how you might identify yourself within any of those sorts of buckets is self-defined.

So we don't have eligibility criteria.

We don't have timelines.

It's really a sort of self-identified, I'm dealing with grief because I'm about to become a mom and my mom died when I was young.

I

How do you describe that missing middle, and how does Metal try to fill it?

So mental health provides virtual care and accompaniment for those facing illness, grief, and dying, and it's big.

Like, how you might identify yourself within any of those sorts of buckets is self-defined.

So we don't have eligibility criteria.

We don't have timelines.

It's really a sort of self-identified, "I'm dealing with grief because I'm about to become a mom, and my mom died when I was young.

I am, uh, anticipating the aging of my parents.

So really wanting to do away, um, with the hierarchy that exists within a lot of the healthcare system of doctors up here and then we go down, and that, that felt really important to us.