Please.

My book, podcast, everything is grief to growth.

And I understand bristling against that, especially in the very early stages of grief.

And as Emma said, that could be any number of months or years.

Both things can be true at one time.

And the thing about grief, I think to process it properly, we have to look at both sides of it.

So spiritual bypassing is something I am strongly opposed to.

Brian, we'll start with you.

How did you come up with the name Grief 2 Growth?

Y- you know, it's, it's really interesting.

This has come up, you know, a lot recently because, um- Some people, when I first started talking to people about early in grief and I mentioned growth, I understand it's like, it's, it's like a thorn, right? It's like, "Don't talk to me about growth.

I don't wanna hear about growth.

I don't wanna hear that this is a soul plan.

I don't wanna hear this is good for me.

This just sucks." And I understand that, and I wanna acknowledge that.

What advice, encouragement can you, can you share with, with Donna?

Love that.

that.But, um, I can't really tell you the first thing, but as you were s- you were describing Jewel's dream, it reminded me of a story with my daughter Kayla, and I'll try to tell it really quickly.

Um, but there's a movie, it was called...

I think it was called Heaven is Real.

This little boy has a near-death experience, and he goes to heaven, he sees Jesus, and he comes back.

And I just had this urge, like I have to watch this movie.

So I start- I looked all over.

but I know it would help greatly if they could open up to something like that?

So uh, can you tell us about your journey and how you got here today?

Oh, wow.

Well, that's a long story.

So I'll keep it short.

I start, I'd say, kind of in the middle, because there are some transition points in my life.

And when my daughter, Shana, passed away, which was in 2015, she was 15 years old.

So Shana was a she was a great athlete.

So can you tell us what that is?