I

know all this.

I know what you're saying.

I understand all this.

It's so crazy.

Yeah, I've got like ADAT tapes of stuff like that.

But to be honest, I haven't looked at them like I haven't I haven't really truly faced them but it's quite yeah and yeah just going back to what you're saying about the individuals that that that you trusted and I don't know like anytime even now anytime you think of an industry standard or something that's considered standard or normal if they're able to hide behind the name of a company or something and then they just sort of qualify it like that like it's not that's not normal like it's actually individual people that need to like address what they do for a living you know like does that sit well with you ultimately that you know there's this wake of kind of exploited people that and what I don't especially in New Zealand where there's we're so small and it's a small talent pool and it's a really valuable talent pool it's like a natural resource of this really small country and like um just to sort of you know stamp out talent like that it's a waste it's like a bummer

Absolutely.

is is it something that you would want you know your kids to be doing in the future is music still the same not not just an outlet but kind of career path that it was for you

yeah kind of I mean only because I'd sort of want to um you know be around them and sort of help them do stuff because it's you know it's just like any I suppose family business where you get a bit more of a an insight if you've got someone in your family there with you to help you, but that would be the selfish reason.

I still think it's a really hard thing to do, but my kids have just started learning to play guitar, and they just sort of did it themselves, so I think it's about them having their own um impetus to do it i couldn't make them or anything but yeah they seem interested

How did that happen?

Yeah, I actually don't quite recall how it happened, but I do remember living in America at the time and seeing it and seeing the movie in a movie theater.

And it was, that was amazing.

I was only maybe 19 and yeah, I was watching this movie and the song came on and then they used it for the sequel.

And I don't know, it just found a life of its own.