I mean, where did you sort of see the white space in the media market?

that they weren't reporting on what was happening.

And so that's kind of what you're supposed to report on, right? Like, if you did a safari and you were traveling around, you know, in South Africa and you were, you know, doing a safari trip and you started to see an elephant, And you started to see a giraffe and you saw a lion and you saw zebras and then the lion killing the zebras.

You know, you wouldn't say, you know, in my opinion, let's have a debate about the giraffes and the elephants and let's bring on somebody else.

You know, my opinion about the elephants and the giraffes.

First, you have to establish what's there.

What are you watching? And you have to call out this environment for what it is and describe it and see it.

That's a very good

How do you read this firing and how concerned should we be about it?

You know, I think they've already committed massive amounts of war crimes with Iran.

I mean, you know, the children slaughtered in Manab and Lemaire and the families.

And every time the Trump regime escalates, the first targets are tend to always be the civilian population that gets, you know, that gets killed.

And so there already is massive war crimes.

And I've called for anyone running on the democratic side for future presidential elections has to say two things.

One, they'll tear down the ballroom.

How do we then, Ben, and this ties into your book, how do we take this majority coalition that is likely to show up for Democrats this time and how do you turn it into a durable coalition? force capable of fighting back fascism for the long term?

So I gotta ask you, how do we get out of this hell, and how do we get back to democracy?

We have to think about things not in terms of election cycles, not in terms of, like, h- what, what do we do for the kind of immediate, you know, short-term...

Like, it's all important, but we need to think in terms of systems and generational change, and, like, what are we building and why are we building? You know, so much of politics, I think, gets treated and filtered through a gamified lens.

Who's up? Who's down? Who's winning? Who's losing? Who had a good day? Who had a bad day? Now, obviously, all of that is important, but the broader point is what are we actually trying to build here? And for example, with your platform, Aaron, what you've built on TikTok and on YouTube and across media is people come to you as the news source of the day, and people get reliable, accurate, swift, quick news from you over other types of news.

And so that's a big deal because now you P- having a certain value set, and being there with the people in the trenches, that's different than kind of a corporate news oligarchy who views things a certain way.

And so my view is that if there are lots of Aaron Paruses out there, if there are lots of Katie Fangs and Scott McFarlanes, and there are these kinda decentralized network, not of citizen journalists, but of journalist journalists-

Yeah.

I have to acknowledge that elections are important, and ensuring that candidates who have a certain value and principle set win is important when our democracy is being threatened.

[laughs]

I remember doing it with my first calculator when I was in second grade, and I was impressed by the number.

But then, you know, Dr. Bandy Lee, who's a world-renowned clinical psychiatrist and social psychiatrist, she, she has a explanation for this, and she describes when you tolerate a psycho, when you tolerate someone who's severely ill, um, you actually become severely ill.

And if you think about it, if you have a family member, you know, that uncle or whoever it is, and you start to make excuses for that person, you start to, I dunno, empathize with it, but you justify the beha- "Oh, that's just Uncle So-and-So being Uncle So-and-So." And then it becomes part of your life, and the qualities that are actually deeply disturbing, you've justified it as an endearing way f- almost for your survival and your existence.

So when she said it like that, and you describe a mass psychosis taking place, and you trace the roots of mass psychosis historically as well to how was it that in Nazi Germany people didn't see this, you know, crazy, you know, psycho, you know, genocidal killer and, and, and call it ou- How, how did you not, you know, call it out? And you...

There's a lot of historical parallels for it.

It, it's why it's so important that the work that you do, the work that I hope our network does, calls it out and says, "That's lunatic behavior." You know? And I always get frustrated, you know, when people say, "Ah, well, you're being hyperbolic." And I go, "No, no, no.

Yeah

And I just want to get your take and get your framework on Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and what this relationship really is.

When I was a lawyer and we would prepare something called a summary judgment motion, we would talk about undisputed facts and disputed facts.

And when we do our reporting at the Midas Touch Network and you at Mockler Media, I think it's important to recognize that there are a lot of issues that don't have both sides, that just have the undisputed fact.

You're such an incredible debater, Adam, but when you debate people who take the other side of a position on an undisputed fact, I'm not sure I would be able to do what you do because I don't know how you can sit there with the level of patience and even deal with some of the gaslighters other than to throw it right back in their face.

It is an undisputed fact.

that Donald Trump is a Putin bootlicker.

That's just what it is.

But what do you think is going on between the two?

How did the Democrats fight back against this?

I think we have to fight back it by playing hardball, too.

You know, the GQP, you know, the Democrats always want to play nice.

We're the big tent party.

You know, we have to play by, you know, all of the rules.

And I think you do.

You have to play by the rules, but you have to also play hardball as well.

Would you guys discuss this with me?

Will I see you there?

I want to bring in Charlie Angus, the head of Meidas Canada, to get his reaction to everything that's going on.

Charlie, of course, this weekend you have Donald Trump's, uh, trade war against Canada escalating, last minute demands by the Trump regime, uh, while engaged in horrifically bad faith negotiations with Canada.

Carney just said to the negotiators, "Let's get back to Ottawa.

We can't deal with these people." You know, and we've learned what those series of, uh, additional demands are, including Canada can't do trade deals with other countries unless they get the approval of the, uh, United States.

And then over the past 24, 48 hours, we've seen Trump regime officials, J.D. Vance, Bessent, like whining, like, "They're being mean to us, and they like Canada better than us, and they're being so rude.

And if, if, if we just hurt them more, they're gonna come back to the negotiating table, and they're gonna be...

The only thing I'm s- wondering is at what point is the rest of the, the political, media, economic class gonna speak up because Donald Trump has now picked a fight that I believe is going to do him in.

[laughs]

What are you ta- That, that's the cleanup on, on, on Fox? Look, if, if, if you look at the type of candidates Donald Trump was endorsing in Florida, too, I mean, you had the, uh, Lauf, right, the carpetbagger from Illinois, and she lost.

You had Corey Mills, whose, uh, background and personal issues are very similar, uh, to, to, to Tr- Tr- Trump may know a thing or two, you know, about that.

Um, but it's loyalty and weirdness to the MAGA cult.

And I think people right now are sick and tired of people running the, the 2024 playbook, which I was sick and tired of l- way before then.

[laughs] But people are sick and tired of, "All right, you're doing the culture war thing.

We're talking about Sophie Cunningham on WNBA.

It's not in its isolation that we do these things, and yet when you, when you speak to Trump or you listen to Trump talk about it, he's very myopic in terms of how he thinks about it.

Listen to Here's The Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's get to that next point, but it does seem he's managing Warsh's desire not to be involved in this area by sending at least a signal to the broader market to say, "Here's the vision that we have, and at least short term, we got your back." Short term.

The problem that I see observing this is long term, which is something that you and I talk about, that this is a problem where the bucket gets kicked down in a bad way to who's gonna have to deal with this and unravel a lot of this stuff that's happening that feels you're a little bit robbing from Peter to pay Paul, and you are taking the long-term treasuries out of the market, um, to lower the prices.

But you are issuing a short-term fix with these short-term bonds to lower the longer term [laughs] yields down, which you still have a debt issue.

You're still issuing a lot of debt, and that's still gonna increase the deficit, and that's still gonna increase that $40 trillion number we're approaching.

But you've put a Band-Aid on a broader problem, and then who becomes the next president, you deal with it.

And so anyway, that's kind of my fear about what's happening.

The underlying reality is that the US government has borrowed an enormous amount of money, and markets are sending out warning signals that that requires higher interest rates.

Yeah

... "this isn't normal." And that's gotta be kind of a, a, a rallying call in general.

So it's how'd we get here? How'd me and my brothers start the MeidasTouch Network? Um, hint, hint, it has a lot to do with this audience that's watching this, that watches you, The Meidas Mighty.

Um, uh, people power coming together, you know, and, and how do we get out of this together? And how do we change this dynamic, not just for an election cycle...

It's not an election book of, "Hey, this is what's happening." You know, we, we, we respond to the daily news, of course, and we respond to what's happening, but how do we get out of this generationally, where you have people who break it, then people try to fix it, and the people who try to fix it get the blame for the people who try to break it, and then it's a constant cycle of that over and over and over again, and the American people are the ones who are suffering.

And the, and, and it has a broader view than just the American people.

Meidas Canada, Meidas Australia, Meidas Europe, Mexico, Central America, South America, Africa, Euro- You know, we have, we have supporters across the world.

Mm-hmm

No, his defense was that combined, they're 32.

It's a fucking asshole.

But what I'm hearing is, is that, so I gave, when I was working on Capitol Hill as an intern, like 20 years ago, I gave those Capitol Hill tours, which are regular tours that people show up at the congressperson's office.

And either the congressperson, if it's like a high level VIP, or if it's just the constituent, it's usually an intern, will give you these tours.

Well, because of COVID, they shut down, there were no tours happening at all at the Capitol building.

But a few days before the January 6th insurrection, other Congress members saw Bobbitt and her staff with other individuals giving them a tour when there were no tours allowed.

Now, there were other comments from Bobbitt you know, basically the next day during the insurrection, saying that Nancy Pelosi left the chambers, you know, saying 1776, which is kind of coded language for these insurrectionists.

Because with time, those local and state-level officials then become congressmen, they become senators, and then they really infiltrate our system with their crazy conspiracies.

and who care about your future.

We talk about some of these important themes.

We talk about freedom.

We talk about our love for America.

We talk about democracy.

But how frequently do you actually hear Democrats campaigning on those things? We've allowed this idea of freedom to be co-opted.

And all of these issues you talk about are freedom issues.

Of course, you'll be too busy with your 15 kids, but maybe it'll be Ben or Brett, right? Do any of you guys have any political ambition?

So without asking you to give free legal advice here, I am curious, like, what can independent journalists, independent media organizations be doing right now to protect themselves at this moment, you know, if they find themselves in a situation similar to the one that Don has found himself in?

You know, the Midas Touch Network has on the ground reporting, though I personally am not the person on the ground.

I'm the person running the network and also doing the videos that I do on a day to day basis on the podcast.

But we work with on the ground reporters, for example, in Washington, D.C., who do exclusive coverage and in Minneapolis.

We've worked with groups there who are on the ground reporting on the day to day of what's happening.

One of those groups is called Status Quo.

We work with other independent reporters on the ground to get us footage that nobody else is getting.

Tell me what what do you know about your audience? Like who is listening and watching demographic breakdown where they live? Anything interesting of note?

Go ahead, Ben.

So, you know, I knew D- I knew Don very well.

We would, [sighs] you know, meet together out here in California and Los Angeles frequently, talk about independent reporting, and here's my view.

I'm someone who loves Don Lemon.

Love the guy.

He's a great friend of mine.

But whether you love Don Lemon or don't like Don Lemon, you should look at what happened as being a very wrong thing, no matter what side of the political aisle you're from.

Yeah.

(laughs)

And I looked at it and I observed it and said, "This is an invasion." And then I said, "Was there congressional authorization for it? Yes or no?" There was not.

Does our Constitution require that there be congressional authorization when I see Chinooks and our soldiers in a foreign country? You absolutely require congressional authorization.

Therefore, it's an invasion that is unlawful.

And so I think sometimes in the gamified political landscape of, "Where do I stand on an issue?" it gets filtered through a lens of politics versus a lens of basic values and principles.

What's the point of having a constitution if it ultimately means nothing? And I think a problem with the Democratic Party or with any political party at that is when you view it in terms of, "Is this gonna help me politically or not politically?" people, the general public, see you're behaving that way, and I think sometimes they view that as, are you staking out a position that is politically advantageous, or do you feel a certain way? Leaders need to lead, not ultimately come up with a position that they think is going to be palatable and then you, as a leader, should bring people along on your position.

And your position as the leader should be grounded in values and principles.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And I looked at it and I observed it and said, "This is an invasion." And then I said, "Was there Congressional authorization for it? Yes or no?" There was not.

Does our Constitution require that there be Congressional authorization when I see Chinooks and our soldiers in a foreign country? You absolutely require Congressional authorization.

Therefore, it's an invasion that is unlawful.

And so I think sometimes in the gamified political landscape of, "Where do I stand on an issue," it gets filtered through a lens of politics versus a lens of basic values and principles.

What's the point of having a Constitution if it ultimately means nothing? And I think a problem with the Democratic Party, or with any political party at that, is when you view it in terms of, "Is this gonna help me politically or not politically?" People......

the general public see you're behaving that way, and I think sometimes they view that as, are you staking out a position that is politically advantageous, or do you feel a certain way? Leaders need to lead, not ultimately come up with a position that they think is going to be palatable and then you sh- as a leader should bring people along on your position.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

His conduct is conscious shocking.

And so when people wake up and they're being disappeared by ICE, when their healthcare is being ripped away, when they're psychologically tortured, living paycheck to paycheck, and people aren't acting with an urgency-

I mean, that guy's, I mean, at another level in terms of his ability to communicate.

You know, look, look, look where the crowds are.

Look who people...

Look, I, I...

This is how I describe it, and it's funny because, like, I got you here.

How did the Democrats fight back against this?

I think we have to fight back it by playing hardball, too.

You know, the GQP, you know, the Democrats always want to play nice.

We're the big tent party.

You know, we have to play by, you know, all of the rules.

And I think you do.

You have to play by the rules, but you have to also play hardball as well.

Would you guys discuss this with me?

Would you consider yourself, and I don't mean literal in this case, but broadly sort of the antidote to the pro-democracy...

pro-democracy...... set in terms of what's going on, not just with Charlie Kirk, but others in that space, and what Charlie's network represents today, obviously with his tragic death.

Yeah.

You know, so I'm a professor at USC.

I was there on campus that day.

Forgive me.

I re- I re- I remember that as, as well.

There you go.

So I'll let you both take it from here.

here.Governor Newsom, it's great to see you, the man of the hour right now.

When your name is on Donald Trump's social media, it seems, on an almost hourly basis, whether it's Donald Trump claiming that, uh, he saved Los Angeles by turning on a magical faucet somewhere in the imaginary border between California and Canada, whether it's Donald Trump saying that he saved Los Angeles again a few months back, whether he, whatever he was making up about you today, it seems that you standing up to him is having a certain type of reaction, doesn't it?

Uh, but it's absolutely critical that we win the messaging war as well, uh, that we organize in a much more, uh, I think, uh, uh, much more, you know, intense way, uh, to communicate over and over and over, uh, again our message a- across the spectrum, which is just foundational in all these efforts.

Look, the federal government once again is heading towards another shutdown potentially, but Donald Trump has ordered MAGA Mike Johnson and Republicans do not even have conversations with Democrats.

He's repeatedly referred to Democrats as the enemy, radical, don't deal with them, don't even talk to them.

You've been in politics for a little bit.

That's not the way it always was, but it is what Donald Trump has turned the body politic into today, kind of this zero sum game, if you will, and we see it play out over and over again.

Right.

But this has also been a disproportionately MAGA issue pushed to weaponize it in a way against their political enemies and basically saying all these other people are on this list and that's why it needs to be released.

And we here at the MeidasTouch Network for the past five years since we really started, we've been very focused on this issue because the links between Epstein and Trump are undisputed and it is sinister and it is disgusting.

The way I like to describe it is this: already from the Epstein files, if you wanna call it that, the accumulation of all the Epstein out there, s- from criminal cases to civil cases, the full pie is 100%.

About 10% has been released from cases already.

If you were to run through in a ChatGPT or something, who's one of the names of prominent rich people who are on this the most? Donald Trump's name would come up because Mar-a-Lago was used as the grounds, and I can say this without fear because it was where Epstein would find girls to sex traffic.

It happened at Mar-a-Lago and I can give you a specific example of Virginia Giuffre, 17-year-old homeless girl, gets a job at Mar-a-Lago at their spa to be the towel girl for rich people there.

Right.

I remember TikTok, when we signed up for TikTok, people were like, isn't that the app 14-year-olds use to do lip syncing and dancing? And we're like, no, there's something here.

Right-wing media, they understand the psychology of people, and they understand that people are suffering right now and are hurting.

But see, they use it in a predatory way.

They look at that fear, they speak to the fear, and then they blame another, and they build a community on that.

If you're looking at the other side, You know, a lot of the audience really wants to know, are you my ally or not? Are you there with me or are you going to switch and hedge on my very existence as a human being if I'm a transgender person or if I'm gay? Are you going to hedge on that? Are you going to look at some poll-tested data and say that my life doesn't matter to you, but you were with me before because all of a sudden people are saying no to DEI? What I knew from my career representing Colin Kaepernick before embarking on this journey into media was when I started with Colin during the first Trump administration, nobody wanted to do a deal with us.

Nobody would return our call.

We were persona non grata.

You could actually have a clear vision that you're presenting to the American people.

You're great guys, and I love you and I thank you, and the world should know, and we should all, we should all be as supportive of each other out here in independent media as you guys are of, um, folks like me and I'm sure others that I don't even know about.

You know what, Don? I think you've really been leading the way in showing others who had been very successful in the corporate news world, I mean, you know, your career at, uh, uh, the other locations ha- have been, uh, you know, legendary, um, and then the transition to being independent media, and now naturally launching a Substack.

So tell us about the launch of your Substack.

What brought you to launch the Substack? What are you looking to do on your Substack? And I saw you did a great video, man-on-the-street style this morning.

You know what I mean?

No, no, no.

Uh, but- but- but- but I think, but here's my view of it, Don.

I- I- I think that part of what fascism wants to do is take away our joy, and they want to take away our laughter.