That's right.

And learned French through Hebrew and English and was dyslexic and then learned French through learning his broken English.

And then came to the States six days later after meeting my mom, falling asleep on a gurney.

They get engaged and, I mean, were married 50 plus years.

He was a workaholic and just a beautiful man.

And he always, when he would take us around on his, you know, he would go around with students from Northwestern and he would take us around and he would ask, you know, they'd be sitting around a patient.

He'd give them all the data about the patient and then he'd ask them questions.

So how are you going to do that?

So I feel like you are the character who, like, is all this desire, and the book really is about, but is looking for the need.

The need is...

Listen, I had incredible parents, like you had incredible parents.

Um, they taught me so many great things just by their actions, but there was Ro- Zeke, the smart one, Ron, the artist, and [laughs] then there was...

You're the third one, and it was a desire to get an identity, and this ins- business that we have entered had all the makings for me to get an identity, and I would've...

As I said to Pete Berg, I didn't have plan B. I only had plan A. I was gonna do anything to make plan A work, and I would've gone, as in the book, to sickness to get to plan A.

Right.

"You, you're the man.

Or, and this is the more skeptical question, is it just about money? Uh, of which you have a lot, and the book tells your rise, but a lot of people think a good life is about more than money.

Well, l- let me answer the last question first, and then we'll come back for the first two.

Um, I think [laughs] how I grew up and my brothers grew up, my parents would say it's more important to have a life of meaning with purpose, and that gives you a life of pleasure than this whole pursuit, sometimes by people of just pleasure.

And so I think the book...

I, I think I've had a meaningful life, a, a l- a life of purpose.

My brother, Zeke, I think tries to improve the world through medicine and med- medical ethics, Rahm through politics and what he can do to change people's lives that way.

Hopefully, by the arts and me, my involvement with my clients, um, and some of the sports that I, uh, are part of, we bring a sense of community that can create conversations across many different lines.

How is he doing in the media space? Would he be doing better had he signed with you?

And so how many calls are on the roll? Is it like a hundred? There's a lot

of calls because calls lead to calls.

But here's the great thing about how I conduct my business.

So I'm rolling calls.

And it is a jigsaw puzzle for me, and I'll give you a perfect example.

I read an article about Mark Andreessen, and this is just one example.

Early on, he had just started his firm.

Seems like he's running.

Yeah

... about how people in Hollywood make money w- it, it, back then was TV packages, and my partner, David Greenblatt at the time, put a package together when we were just Endeavor, there was five or six of us, um, and sol- sold it to DreamWorks, and, and, and Jeffrey, th- they wouldn't pay our package, which is economically when you're starting out, like, a lifeblood for a lot of what we, we do in Hollywood.

Writers Guild, um, got rid of him, but that's a different story.

And throughout, I mean, I just...

It's very hard, and maybe people won't say it w- how they feel about Jeffrey.

I don't mind saying it, 'cause I think my story is probably, if you kind of pull the curtain back, a lot of people feel this way.

But at the end of the day, the worst thing for me is I came out, and my brother worked for Obama.

... describe him physically?

[laughs]

Yeah, but Larry, I go, I, uh, so there's a guy by the name of Dale Abraham that I work with.

I went to l- when I first started, I was in North Carolina, or South Carolina, North Carolina, North- South Carolina at Phil Anschutz's place that he owns down in Carolina, that golf place.

And I f- and I l- was like obsessed with golf.

And I found out Leadbetter was doing a two-day camp.

This is early in my, like, golf.

And I just went down there and did two days, left the kids and the wife, and I just did it.

Yeah.

Emanuel sees packaging deals for TV and movies as an art.

The art of agenting is being relentless in the pursuit to fulfill the dreams of your clients.

That is not easy, right? 'Cause you have to convince somebody that somebody you found, that their product was worthy and that there's some great thing there that a larger group of people will like and enjoy and that can create economic benefit for them.

And there's an artistry to making sure that process is as smooth as possible for the best financial outcome for the buyer and the studio in that relationship, and creatively, your client has an incredible experience and sees through what they have started.

Four strong companies buying up stuff.

Netflix, Amazon, hopefully the Paramount/Warners, and Disney, so that we can create a bidding war to get the artists I represent, the artists other agencies represent, the economics they need, and the ability to make the products they want.

As I have said on the CNN front, pick an editorial board to oversee the conversation.

Pick it, make it bipartisan-

We're recording with Nikesh next

month.

He's fantastic.

Yeah.

And through that, I meet Egon Durbin.

He buys a company that he sells to Microsoft for Skype.

He buys it, I don't know, from whatever.

How old were you when you got hit by that car?

And tell me that story of how many phone calls did you make to finally get hired at CAA?

So I was working in New York for mainly a kind of a book agent, but a theater guy by the name of Robbie Lance.

And this guy who was And he realizes he wasn't, he was in his late 70s, early 80s.

He wasn't going to grow his business anymore.

And he turned to me, and I was working on the Tennessee Williams, Lillian Helmer, and Dashiell Hammett Estates for the theater business.

And he turns to me and says, you should go to Hollywood.

You'll make a lot of money.

How were you able to make enough phone calls and yet navigate the system so they weren't completely put off by you?

Mm-hmm.

Jim leaves, Irv leaves.

New board.

And then, um, I think it was a- 2011.

Um, 2010.

Teddy F- I think it was.

Teddy Forshem gets sick and passes away, who was a, a guy I knew, and he had just bought IMG.

You bought the Isles.

[laughs]

...

I'm dyslexic, and what happens to your kids and how you have to put it through, you know, put them through it to kinda get to the other side, and it's not always easy.

Back in the day, m- unlike when I brought my kids up who were dyslexic, I put them through Lindamood-Belle, which we discussed.

Um, my mom found a woman, I sat in her windowsill and, for two hours, and she made me read, and it was hell.

And my mom put me through it, and the other thing it gave me, it gave me emotional endurance, and it, it, I believed in myself.

And but anybody that either made fun of me, um, that's when it kinda, I hit the third rail.

... at the White House.

The stock was not doing well

... uh, only getting value for the UFC portion of it, and we all agreed we're gonna do this LBO.

If at any point in time in that year he said, "Hey, I think we should be doing this.

You're the chairman of our...

You're, you're supposedly the agent" Okay.

W- w- of course we would've changed.

If he would've come into my office and we all agreed on the process, and then he then changed his mind.

Everything's for sale.

Oh, so nice.

And I give, and I give them, I've given them watches, that they've made it and they're really successful.

They're really great at what they do.

And we talk about horror stories.

And one of my former assistants, and now an agent, said, "It's so tough." And I just turned to her, I said, "Shut the fuck up.

What, what are you talking about it's tough?" And Bill Haber said this to me a while, and he goes, "Just keep on turning over the rocks until you find what you need." The job is to make the calls, not wallow in, "Oh, it's so hard", and just do the job.

Your job is to be business creative.

Yes.

Or it just came pouring out of you?

You know, when we started Endeavor, which was the agency after we l- left ICM.

We couldn't compete financially, 'cause there was four big agencies: United Talent, ICM, William Morris, and CAA.

So we couldn't compete on price.

They didn't want a newcomer.

We had to c- compete on ideas, aggressiveness, and hard work.

And when somebody tried to bully us and say no, I was okay.

Find it now in the In the Dark podcast feed.

All right.

And, uh, he said at one point, which really stuck with me, he goes, "You know, this anger problem, ego problem, back in the '50s, people that were really successful in business were considered smart." And for whatever reason, that statement hit me.

And I remember my parents coming into LA and I picked them up at the airport, and we were talking about I had just taken over William Morris with Patrick and everybody, and I, that was explaining the business to my dad, who was asking me a question, my mom.

And they, in the back seat, they go, "Well, who all does all that?" And I'm, I said, "Well, it's not my [beep] brother, Ram, or my [beep] brother, Zeke.

You know, hello."

[laughs]

And then, and then, and then when things go south, when things go south and, and President, President Biden, it's going south

Right.

We couldn't compete financially because there was four big agencies: United Talent, ICM, William Morris, and CAA.

So we couldn't compete on price.

They didn't want a newcomer.

We had to c- compete on ideas, aggressiveness, and hard work.

And when somebody tried to bully us and say, "No," I was okay.

Like, "Okay, I guess we're gonna tussle, and I'm not just gonna give in just because you're the big guy and I'm supposed to give in to you." And that happened a lot, and I was one of the guys-

Mm-hmm.

Um, when you kinda saw that coming, what, 20 years ago or so, 15 years ago?

It was, it was te- we, we, um, so we buy IMG.

It's William Morris- Um, Patrick Whitesell and myself, w-we, we get, we take control of, um, of, uh, William Morris.

Then this company, this investment company, Silver Lake, comes in because this guy Teddy Forstmann had passed away.

He was a friend, and he owned this company, IMG.

I had a relationship with this guy, uh, Egon Dürbeck, who's an incredible investor, like the best.

In fact, I think he's the best.

[laughs]

And we were

very competitive, but love each other.

And so when you get into the house and your Grades go up on the refrigerator, because that's what my mom did, and you got A+, A, A+, and schmuck, as my father would say.

Not in a bad way, in a loving way.

You know, you get pissed off because you want an identity.

And it was a smart one.

My brother, Zeke, the artist, my brother, Ram, and then the last one.

I

Mm-hmm

... he's, he's the President of the United States now.

Um, I, I, my mom brought us up and my dad, like, you talk to everybody.

You make friends with...

I mean, you make peace with enemies, not with friends.

Um, I'm, I'm not of the, of the ilk that, um, you don't talk to the other side.

You're not in this echo chamber.

Have you spoken to him since?

Mm.

I, I, I put my kids through this course called Lindamood-Bell, which my brother Zeke did to his, um, his daughter, and he talked, talked to me about that.

And all the things that at the time I would've cut off my left arm to get, not have dyslexia.

Um, but my mom enabled me to go through the hardships, as hard as that is for a parent, but it gives you endurance and emotional endurance as a parent.

And then for people starting out in business, um, I think it gives them a roadmap that you can have agency, you can declare what you want, and you can go for it.

And I think I never had a plan B, I only had a plan A.

And this gives, I think, kids some roadmap about how one person does it.

What was the first deal? What was the thing that lit you up and made you wanna do this?

So for you, what is it that makes an idea or a story or a client exciting? What's that thing you look for?

One, if it makes me laugh, if it makes me cry, if it makes me feel.

And two, if I'm looking at an environment and I'm saying, everybody's saying something.

I mean, I've been told I can't read.

I've been told all the times I've been told I can't do stuff.

I've been able to do it.

And one of the great things about my mother and father is like follow your instinct.

Do you think your brother should run for president?

So for you, what is it that makes an idea or a story or a client exciting? What's that thing you look for?

One, if it makes me laugh, if it makes me cry, if it makes me feel.

And two, if I'm looking at an environment and I'm saying, everybody's saying something.

I mean, I've been told I can't read.

I've been told all the times I've been told I can't do stuff.

I've been able to do it.

And one of the great things about my mother and father is like follow your instinct.

Do you think your brother should run for president?

All right.

And, uh, he said at one point, which really stuck with me, he goes, "You know, this anger problem, the ego problem, back in the '50s, people that were really successful in business were considered smart." And for whatever reason, that statement hit me.

And I remember my parents coming into LA, and I picked them up at the airport, and we were talking about I had just taken over William Morris with Patrick and everybody, and I, I was explaining the business to my dad, who was asking me a question, my mom.

And they, in the backseat they go, "Well, who all does all that?" And I'm, I said, "Well, it's not my [beep] brother, Rom, or my [beep] brother, Zeke.

You know, hello."

Yeah.

We need more people talking about let's not hate each other, let's talk to each other, and let's not talk about things that are really kind of, um, I think...

Let, let's all get on the same page about what we're discussing.

Didn't work out.

So we're in the White House.

We would do his books, his lectures.

And I'm explaining to him where Netflix is going and all the streamers are going.

And he says to me, my people think, you know, this streaming thing's not.

And as a classic Emanuel, I say, I interrupt him.

And I think everybody's mouth dropped.

What's your advice on how to keep the drive going?

Even about the future of show business in uncertain times.

Telling stories is human nature.

It's always been around.

It's not going anywhere.

Is AI and other things going to make it better? I think so.

You just think this is a change and we adapt to change? We have to adapt to change.

I think there's going to be actually more movies and more television.

phrase.