But not to your target.

But look, I was really clear from the start that the 1.5 million homes target is a stretch target.

And I'm determined to meet that.

And there is a number of measures, including the changes to the national planning policy framework, the £10 billion of investment in social and affordable homes targets.

schemes like today which is making sure it's really targeted for those that can't afford to save up a big deposit but have got the income to be able to get on the housing ladder to really give them a start and also to make sure that we're building the council housing that the Prime Minister has set out that we desperately need because we have far too many children in temporary accommodation and the taxpayer pay a huge sum of money for that.

It's not value for money.

We need to build the social homes that people desperately need.

So what would you like a successful conference in Liverpool to look like?

Do you feel comfortable now in a way that maybe you weren't able to before?

Well, I always said that I was sort of the yang to Keir Starmer's ying, and he had a very different way about how he would tackle a problem, whereas I sort of came in very emotional.

He'd come in with the statistics and the...

Both of those things are really important, and I felt complemented our leadership styles, but...

You know, reflecting on working with Andy, I've known Andy a very long time.

And ironically, the first time I met Andy was I was a union rep when I was a home care worker in Unison North West and him alongside Michael Meacher and Tony Lloyd.

Local Manchester Labour MP.

Has that experience changed you, do you think, as a person, maybe as a politician?

Will there be conversations today with Paris, do you imagine?

Well, Shabana Mahmood and our Home Secretary are in constant dialogue with the French and we've already seen the results of that.

But you're absolutely right that any vessel or dinghy or whatever you want to call it that puts people's lives at risk and the criminality involved in that has to be cracked down on.

I think the French recognise that and have been working with the UK government and the UK government recognise that.

Nobody wants to see babies and toddlers washed ashore and criminals getting away with exploiting some of the most vulnerable people.

Not only are we cracking down on the criminals that bring these boats ashore, we're also cracking down on the illegal migrants that enter the UK and we're seeing the highest number of deportations.

So we're tackling both issues, the pull and the push factor for people who think that they can come over on a vessel, the criminals that think they can get away with that and those that think that they can stay in the UK illegally because the Home Secretary is really clear, you can't.

Will there be conversations today with Paris, do you imagine?

When you had to resign last year, did you think you would be back here?

No.

But I would say it also gave me a reflection of the time when I was on the backbench, 'cause if you remember when I was elected in 2015, it was quite a whirlwind, and I ended up on the frontbench very quickly.

And it was an honor to play my role in that, but it was also very humbling to come back onto the backbenches and to work with colleagues there and to really look at where we'd come.

And we'd made some great achievements, got into government, and I was, was really proud of the work that I did to get us there.

But also the reflection of the change that we promised at the election wasn't happening quick enough, and I could see that.

I could see that as I was spending more time in my constituency because of I had more time to do that.

So what- What have you got to do to, to do the thing that even Andy Burnham couldn't?

Then they're looking at interest, which-

And it's the psychology of that.

So, 'cause I talk about, like in my household, you'd, you'd be frightened of debt.

So even though people say, "Well, if you don't earn enough, you won't pay it back," or, "Some people will never pay it back," but it's the psychology of that hanging around your neck at the same time as the insecurity of, can I find a job and is there a job security for us going forward? It's why...

So an example is there is a lot of kickback to the living wage going up, the minimum wage, and my employment rights, that I make no apology.

People should be able to know if they're gonna get guaranteed hours.

'Cause you can't get a mortgage, you can't have security about whether you're gonna have a, raise a family if you're on a zero-hour contract or if your pay is meaning you're having to visit a food bank even though you're working, and that is the reality for people at the moment.

But I think young men especially are really quite susceptible to things like the manosphere and things that want to take these ideas and manipulate and weaponize them as well.

Kieran and I spoke to her in July when talk of the toxic macho culture in Number 10 was everywhere.

I think sometimes th- there is briefings, and I don't know where these alleged sources are and who's the person that's saying them.

They can be quite frustrated because people will say, "Well, it's Number 10's briefing," or, "It's a source from Number 10." But in reality it's like, "Well, who said that?" You know? That we've had these briefings that my colleagues, Bridget, Lisa, everyone's up for, you know, "I'm being marginalized and I..." And I'm like, "Wha- where is that coming from?" Because the reality is, you know, government is about us working together and having those conversations.

But I don't get the impression that there is some sort of dark art of trying to under-manage.

It's not a good idea to do that and it wouldn't be helpful to Number 10 to do that.

So it's not in Number 10's interest-

Can you ever envisage yourself having an even bigger one and being Prime Minister Angela Rayner?

Oh (laughs).