Um-

So, so when, so when you say heavenly host, you're talking about such a wide variety of different kinds of creatures.

So if we, if we look at, let's say, the, the Amazon jungle, okay? And, and we look and we say, how many different kinds of creatures are in just one square mile of the Amazon jungle, in 3D linear world here, okay? Um, if we're talking about a spiritual dimension and we go to their equivalent, let's say, of their world, why wouldn't they have just as many, if not more, kinds of beings and creatures that are available in that particular area? And I think that people aren't thinking of a spiritual dimension in that way.

I think a lot of people think it's sort of an amorphous blob where, you know, you don't...

You can't set down a, a, a glass on a table because the table's not really there.

It's not really real.

But I think that that is, uh, a kind of a misunderstanding of that particular kind of a dimension, especially when you look at it, um, through the lens of the Bible.

What, what is that? What does that mean? What does that look like?

Um-

So, so when, so when you say heavenly host, you're talking about such a wide variety of different kinds of creatures.

So if we, if we look at, let's say, the, the Amazon jungle, okay? And, and we look and we say, how many different kinds of creatures are in just one square mile of the Amazon jungle, in 3D linear world here, okay? Um, if we're talking about a spiritual dimension and we go to their equivalent, let's say, of their world, why wouldn't they have just as many, if not more, kinds of beings and creatures that are available in that particular area? And I think that people aren't thinking of a spiritual dimension in that way.

I think a lot of people think it's sort of an amorphous blob where, you know, you don't...

You can't set down a, a, a glass on a table because the table's not really there.

It's not really real.

But I think that that is, uh, a, kind of a misunderstanding of that particular kind of a dimension.

What, what is that? What does that mean? What does that look like?

What's some of the stuff that you've kind of come up with?

Well, it's interesting to me that way back in 1972, Jacques Vallée, sort of the grandfather of the UFO research movement, he and Mr. Hynek, and Sid Friedman, of course.

But in 1972, he gets up in front of the General Assembly of the UN.

and tells everyone these beings are not from other planets, that they are engineering a whole story and purporting to be from other planets.

He said, when I believe that they are interdimensional of a spiritual nature.

In 1972.

Yeah.

um human alien hybrids in allegedly a program uh that matt gates left out tim burschett has hinted at which is fascinating um what are we talking about here are we are we talking about different races i have a feeling we're talking about different creatures angelic beings and or demonic beings i mean um i guess deepens are just spirits but like

... we're doing the best we can, right? There you go.

[laughs] Really.

Um, I, I'm, I'm going to say I'm, I'm a big believer in, in prayer, but I'm also a big believer in taking your authority in Christ.

If you are, if you're following Jesus Christ, you have an enormous amount of spiritual authority.

And so you, you hook that up to your faith, that you know that God is good, you know that He does act, you know that He is effective, you know that He loves you, and His compassion is unfailing.

And so when you couple all of that together with your authority, your spiritual authority that you have, um, you can pray and have miracles happen that are just unbelievable.

Um, I, I was very fortunate enough, um, I was a producer for segments for, uh, reenactment segments for a Christian TV talk show.

Hmm.

[laughs] Right

... and somebody can make their own little hat.

But, um, it, it was very real to me.

And, um, I remember as a child trying to tell people that, you know, something was happening to me, that, um, that I was having these crazy visitations and things of that nature.

And of course, you know, I was a very imaginative child to begin with, but, you know, they just lumped this in with the rest of the fantasy of, of, you know, what children do when they make up stories.

But I never wavered on this.

This is, this is something that I think, uh, people need to take into account when someone is telling them a story or something that has happened to them.

Hmm.

But seriously, what Tony was talking about, your response together.

You know, I am going to say that...

The principalities, powers, dominions, thrones, that covers a lot of territory.

And I think that these entities fall somewhere in there.

But I also want to remind people that just because something comes from a spiritual realm doesn't mean that it cannot manifest physically.

We see all through the Bible where angels, which are definitely spiritual beings, are able to manifest physically and have dinner with you.

And we are told that we entertain angels unaware.

Okay.

There you go.

Really.

Um, I'm, I'm going to say I'm, I'm a big believer in, in prayer, but I'm also a big believer in taking your authority in Christ.

If you are, if you're following Jesus Christ, you have an enormous amount of spiritual authority.

And so you, you hook that up to your faith that you know that God is good, you know that He does act, you know that He is effective, you know that He loves you, and His compassion is unfailing.

And so when you couple all of that together with your authority, your spiritual authority that you have, um, you can pray and have miracles happen that are just unbelievable.

Um, I, I was very fortunate enough, um, I was a producer for segments for, uh, reenactment segments for a Christian TV talk show.

Wow.

Right

... somebody can make their own little hat.

But, um, it, it was very real to me.

And, um, I remember as a child trying to tell people that, you know, something was happening to me, that, um, that I was having these crazy visitations and things of that nature.

And of course, you know, I was a very imaginative child to begin with, but, you know, they just lumped this in with the rest of the fantasy of, of, you know, what children do when they make up stories.

But I never wavered on this.

This is, this is something that I think, uh, people need to take into account when someone is telling them a story or something that has happened to them.

Mm.

What was the catalyst for you wanting to make the film according to what was currently being released in film and TV?

As I said before, this was kind of a job.

And it wasn't until we really started looking at it, saying, you know, what does the world really need to know about this phenomenon? And what are they being told about this phenomenon as far as popular culture is concerned? And we realized that there's a big disconnect there between what they're being told and the actual reality of this being a spiritual issue.

This is not a phenomenon that takes place in a vacuum.

It is not a scientific phenomenon.

It is not, you know, some kind of phenomenon where you're searching for life on other planets or anything like that.

This is something else.

Yeah,

What, what do you two think about the Book of Enoch and a lot of the things that are described in there?

Well, I think, I think that, that much like other writings that are tangential to the Bible, there are some very interesting things in there that are supportive of the Bible.

And then there's some things in there that are like, "Eh, I don't know about that." But I think one of the biggest, one of the biggest things that, that we take away from that when we look at it and measure it against the scriptures that we do have that are canonized, is that we are dealing with supernatural beings.

They're not really from other planets.

These are supernatural beings from another dimension.

The Bible talks about it.

We call it the heavenly realm or the spiritual dimension, and they're interacting with us in very personal ways.

Goodness.