viewer of linear television.

Yeah.

I mean, by the way, shout out every time he's angry about me and he posts on True Social, like when the show's on TV, I'm like, thank you for watching the commercials.

Because that pays for it.

Like every time he's on True Social, if you timestamp it, you're like, that was the first act break.

But yeah, so I never thought it.

And even by the way, when I started at SNL, I had no sense of like being somebody who would write about politics or make jokes about politics.

Is that how you'll be written in this book?

Yes.

He was my friend, and he was, uh...

We had done, uh, improv together.

We were improvising, uh, in Chicago together, and he was the one who said, "Hey, there's this theater in Amsterdam, and they're having auditions." And I just to this day am so lucky to have had a friend who was willing to take a big swing like that because I never would have even gone to that audition.

But the fact that I had a friend who was down for that kind of adventure, and we both auditioned for that, and then we both ended up moving to Amsterdam.

Uh, I was there for two years.

You guys had years of working together.

We had a shorthand.

Did you remind me of how that chapter at SNL, like just remind me of how things went.

I was at SNL happy as a clam, which is probably not at some point, not.

a great vibe for SNL.

I think when you get too comfortable, it's, you know, the show is fueled by chaos to some degree.

And I certainly was in the place where I did not, I thought I was completely free of ever getting fired from the show.

And I think I was probably right to feel that way.

But at the same time, you know, you, I think sometimes Lorne You know, that show works because of turnover.

we'll start there.

That was so good."

That's the problem with interviewing legends.

I, in fact, the first time De Niro was on my show, he directed a movie called The Good Shepherd, uh, with Angelina Jolie and Matt Damon, and I think he's only directed one or two things.

And I really liked it.

It's right up Seth's alley.

It's a CIA movie.

And I remember the first time he was on my show as a guest, I told him, I, "Hey, I really liked that movie." And he was like, "Oh, thank you." You know, something.

[laughs]

I mean, it's going to be hard not to turn into Chris Farley and just be like, dear Hunter, like, like, oh, so good.

That's the problem with interviewing legends.

I, in fact, the first time De Niro was on my show.

He directed a movie called The Good Shepherd with Angelina Jolie and Matt Damon.

And I think he's only directed one or two things.

And I really liked it.

It's right up Seth Sally.

But what did you write when you were when he was hosting? Do you remember stuff you wrote for him?

It's not rude at all.

I'm doing you a favor.

This part was not good.

I did laugh a little bit at that part, so do more of that.

No, but when he came out, the guy was like, hey, can I buy you a drink? And I was like, oh, yeah, of course.

Did you see the show? He goes, yes, I did.

And I said, did you like it? He goes, no, I did not care for it.

What was your level of knowledge about the Netherlands? It was so

So is there a lot of risk here? Is this a safer way to invest in this, this AI build-out?

Yeah.

I, it, it depends on your, what, what your angle is.

I, I think that, one, you have to understand what a convert buyer, buyer is doing, right? You're, you're buying an underlying bond, and you're buying a call option of a stock.

So downside protection if things don't work out, 'cause ultimately you're, you're, you're senior to the common if things don't work out.

But ultimately what you're doing is, is making a call on the upside of the stock if you're just going along with the convert itself.

I think you really have to unpack it and say, "Who's actually buying these instruments, and, and what are they doing on the other side?" In many instances, right, it's just a play for volatility.

But on the flip side of that, does the other side of it starts to go bad on these Neoclouds or Oracle, that sort of thing? Might it kind of just, I don't know, pull back a little bit demand for this sort of debt anyway, one way or another?

So you wanted to kind of give us an update on stuff from that side?

Yeah, no, for sure.

I mean, the Summer League title is definitely a big thing, surprisingly, because these games are barely even televised.

But it really showcases a lot of the times which rookies are going to be effective immediately and which guys are probably going to be like two way contract guys are going to need a few years to get into the league and stuff like that.

But I mean, I've got two guys.

One of them is actually not a rookie.

I've got two standouts for you.

It sucks.

Can you take us all the way back to your SNL audition?

The thing I always say that's crazy about the audition is you do it from the monologue spot.

So it's crazy enough that you're gonna be in a room with Lorne Michaels and Tina Fey and all these producers and writers who have seen nothing but talent for the entireties of, of their lives.

And it, it'd be weird enough if it was just in a comedy club or in, you know, somebody's office.

But the fact that you're doing it from the spot that you know so well from television, and you have five minutes to do an audition you wrote, which was the other part that was, looking back, very cool about it.

Because you can show, I think, your own voice the best when it's your material, as opposed to if they, like, gave you something to read.

But it's also s- so daunting to write something that you're gonna have to do for Lorne.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Zach, people might not know, uh, you're my brother-in-law.

We married sisters, and because of that, you've seen me on the tennis court, and I guess my question is do you see more Andy in my game or more Rafa?

... than either of these two.

And, and as somebody, uh, in, uh, showbiz and not sports, I know how much positive feedback matters, and I just wanna say I thought it was an excellent documentary.

he said man fuck this i don't even know what a comic-con is anyway

My most recent best of Spivey story is I did a, I was doing standup at a casino in Albuquerque.

And I saw that next week Patti LaBelle was playing.

So immediately already I had Spivey front of mind.

Then when I went out on stage at this casino to do my show, there was a mister, like, you know, like shooting mist behind me for like the, to sort of like as a lighting effect.

This is the sound the mister was making.

And I knew the audience couldn't hear it, but I could hear the mister and it was driving me crazy.

When you're ready, we will start the clock.

That was really-

What I like about this photo is that, I like about this photo is that it was in the summertime when we started, and we're all, if you put this back up there, is that Jimmy and Jimmy and me and Seth have got tans, and Oliver somehow got paler over the summer.

Why?

Spoiler alert.

And people questioning its future.

Uh, p- I have been asked this question more, like three times over the last 10 months in various interviews.

Like, they go like, "Make a case for Late Night." I'm like, "What do you mean?" And they go like, "Make, make a case for it.

Like, why should it continue to exist?" I'm like-

[laughs]

We wear fishnets under denim ripped up shorts.

We wear flannels over Aerosmith T-shirts.

And I literally dress like that.

I mean-

Great.

Um, everything that makes, uh, just the, the fashion, the what the ladies, they're just...

I love it so much.

... because it was enough time.

It was so, it was so much.

You...

That putting on and taking off coats, sometimes I think of an SNL sketch just at the table that, for whatever reason, stays with me forever.

Do you remember Fred did a sketch once where he was someone-... at a dinner party, he kept taking off-

[laughing]

And he would take it off, and it was like he had to, like, loop it around his head, and he had a practical scarf, and he'd loop it around his head, like, 10 times while everybody waited, and then he'd start telling a story.

He's like, "Oh, my God, it gets so chilly," and then just looping.

better.

Look, I think the hardest time I ever went through was getting your dream job of SNL and then showing up and realizing everybody there was also... like the best person in the last place they were and that your bag of tricks is now seems very meager compared to the talent you're sort of stacked up against.

And I was probably hired for the wrong thing when I got hired at SNL because I think if Lorne Michaels could go back in time, he would probably say, oh, that guy will be a good writer as opposed to a cast member.

And so I had to sort of like back my way into the job I was right for.

And that was a really rough five years of finding my way there.

Then you get a show like Late Night and it's the same thing, which is you spend the first couple of years aiming for competence so they don't take the show away.

It's only after you feel your legs underneath you that you actually start trying to make it the show you want it to be.

What have you done to set the tone for inclusion and comfort even among junior staffers? Well, I will

You do the thing you can do.

If there was a breakthrough over the 11 years of doing the show, just show up and do the work.

That's the only part they're paying you to do.

It's the only part you're good at.

All the other problems, we have people that are as good at that as you are as the thing you do and don't mess around with it.

I sometimes take stock of, oh, this isn't the best time to be doing what I'm doing, but at least I got in.

And so, I sometimes think the body of my work matters enough.

Right.

I think he's a juxtaposition between feeling very like loose and goofy, but when we've all had the chance to work with him and he's very serious when he works.

Yeah, and I would say he's almost never, he's very opposed to taking like the first idea.

Like he'll really, he really wants to dig through them all before he moves forward with something.

And I'm very, I think maybe, I think our improv bones sometimes are very enamored with the first ideas.

And those guys are like, no, let's not take the easy way out.

And it certainly shows in their work.

And then just a couple of things.

When did that start, by the way? Why does he hate Frisbee?

Everything is easier.

Yeah.

But he...

I... you know, with that said, uh, Andy does nothing, uh, the easy way.

Um, I've always said, like he showed up and I thought, "Oh my God, this guy is so sophomoric," and then I realize now that he has a PhD in sophomoric comedy.

Like nobody approaches what they do with like more integrity and intelligence than he does.

But like I'm very cons-...

I think he has a juxtaposition between feeling very like loose and goofy, but when we've all, we've all had the chance to work with him and he's very serious when he works.

Yeah.

And now you firmly have been told, nope, this is us.

You know, uh, uh, more us than it was even in 2016 'cause everybody know exactly, you know, what the deal was.

And so, uh, we've sort of given ourselves permission to just, uh, and I know this will sound possibly hollow, uh, as I say it, but just to make sure we are still joyful because, like, once you- your joy is taken away, like, they win.

And so we're not trying to pretend like anything is good.

We're trying to, uh, still talk about things that are really difficult and, um, scary.

Well, what was the vibe? I mean, what, what were, when, you know, heading into that thing, what did you do on it? Did you, did you write?

I was, yeah, I was a, they hired me to be a writer but I really didn't have much to do.

Okay.

So, I'm, but I will say, I am happy that I kept it hidden the way that I did 'cause I don't, I don't think like, um, when you present the feelings that I was having at SNL, I think that that is not a, a, a vibe that people wanna like be around.

But what was the vibe then? If you were to distill it down, what was the feeling then?

I just felt as though they'd made a terrible mistake, right? Like, just full imposter syndrome.

And I showed up and pretty quickly, I think, you know, to go back to what I said, like, I was so excited, you know, "Oh my God, I'm, they're hiring me the same time as Amy Poehler." And then you walk down the hallway and you're like, "Oh my God, I'm in the same show as Will Ferrell and, and Chris Kattan."

I also

think you're very good at not letting, sometimes you help turn people away from the negative narrative that they might want to lay out to you.

So you're really good friend and that you listen.

And I think you can tell when people just need to like unburden themselves or something.

But I feel like more than maybe anyone else I know, you're very good at saying, can I invite you to look at this a different way? May I offer you

some feedback? Not even feedback.

It's more like I just I you know, it's not like this is how you should.

But like you're telling me something and I see how you're seeing it.

Mm-hmm.

So, you're a really good friend in that you listen and I think you can tell when people just need to, like, unburden themselves or something. But I feel like more than maybe anyone else I know, you're very good at saying, "Can I invite you to look at this a different way?"

May I offer you some feedback?

Y- Um, not even feedback. It's more like, I just, I, you know, it's not like, "This is how you should..." But like, "You're telling me something and I see how you're seeing it. But, like, can I just ask you to maybe see it this way where you won't be as hard on yourself and you won't be as sad about it?" I don't know. I feel like you've always been very good that way.