Sep 19, 2026 · 25 min · 9 segments
Henry was honoured to chat with Mark Morris, Chair & Co-Founder of Schools for All Australia. Mark is a strategic leader, executive coach and education advocate with more than 20 years of leadership…
Mark MorrisGuest
Henry GrossekHost
If we can't make them better, what's the point, Mark? Now, you've argued that Australia's schools are among the most socially segregated and inequitable in the developed world.
Is the problem really about schools or is schooling actually a reflection of deeper inequalities in Australian society?
And I think this one is particularly interesting and I get a lot of discussion back and forth through my social channels on this in terms of chicken or egg causation or correlation.
But the reality is Australia does have one of the most socially segregated countries.
And this has been demonstrated and reported on with independent objective research.
And the problem is both, to answer your question, I wouldn't say that it's one or the other.
It's a result of inequalities in our society and inequalities in how our schooling system is designed.
And as Susan Close recently said in a narration, If in the 1970s we were to design the school system that we want, what we have right now would not be that.
And now we need to try to course correct because we talk a lot about social cohesion at the moment and our school system needs to contribute to the type of society And we want a society where people feel connected, people feel included, people feel safe.
And we're not going to get that kind of society by segregating within our school system.
In a segregated society, schools are just grouping like with like, and this is putting people in opposition to each other and separating rather than integrating and helping each other understand one another.
Now, Mark, you've experienced with your son's school and its approach to gender and hair policies.
What did that experience teach you about how institutions respond to when an individual challenges a rule or assumption that has simply become, well, it's the way we do things.
Yeah, look, I mean, that was such a small issue, really, but it absolutely helped to catalyse my advocacy.
And what I initially thought was a case of sex discrimination quickly revealed itself to be much deeper in terms of systemic racism discrimination at a number of levels and I think one of the sayings we often say in the corporate world is when you hear because that's the way we've always done things that's a red flag That's a reason to change in most instances and is not a justification for why things are the way they are.
If we can't make them better, what's the point, Mark? Now, you've argued that Australia's schools are among the most socially segregated and inequitable in the developed world.
Is the problem really about schools or is schooling actually a reflection of deeper inequalities in Australian society?
And I think this one is particularly interesting and I get a lot of discussion back and forth through my social channels on this in terms of chicken or egg causation or correlation.
But the reality is Australia does have one of the most socially segregated countries.
And this has been demonstrated and reported on with independent objective research.
And the problem is both, to answer your question, I wouldn't say that it's one or the other.
It's a result of inequalities in our society and inequalities in how our schooling system is designed.
And as Susan Close recently said in a narration, If in the 1970s we were to design the school system that we want, what we have right now would not be that.
And now we need to try to course correct because we talk a lot about social cohesion at the moment and our school system needs to contribute to the type of society And we want a society where people feel connected, people feel included, people feel safe.
And we're not going to get that kind of society by segregating within our school system.
In a segregated society, schools are just grouping like with like, and this is putting people in opposition to each other and separating rather than integrating and helping each other understand one another.
Now, Mark, you've experienced with your son's school and its approach to gender and hair policies.
What did that experience teach you about how institutions respond to when an individual challenges a rule or assumption that has simply become, well, it's the way we do things.
Yeah, look, I mean, that was such a small issue, really, but it absolutely helped to catalyse my advocacy.
And what I initially thought was a case of sex discrimination quickly revealed itself to be much deeper in terms of systemic racism discrimination at a number of levels and I think one of the sayings we often say in the corporate world is when you hear because that's the way we've always done things that's a red flag That's a reason to change in most instances and is not a justification for why things are the way they are.
The rest of this transcript — segmented and speaker-labeled, so you land on the exact moment something was said
Search every transcript — by keyword, by phrase, or by meaning, across every show Radar indexes
Trends — what is surging across podcasts, measured against its own baseline
Alerts — when a name you follow appears in a newly indexed episode
No account is needed to search Radar.
