Oct 16, 2026 · 42 min · 16 segments
We talk to Dr. Mattie Renn on what happened when ICE agents shot Oscar Belgal in Marble Hill and NYPD offices arriving on the scene took Belgal to NY Presbyterian Allen Hospital in Inwood. How can…
Simon FitzgeraldHostMattie RennGuest
Cassandra RaphaelHostAnd for there to be this, this uncertainty or opacity for healthcare workers specifically surrounding what they can and cannot do, um, this is an example of, uh, uh, those sort of confusion tactics in real time.
And, you know, we've had people on the show, including from, uh, from Minnesota and also other people, um-
And of course, you know, people in civil detention, in immigration de- detention typically actually have more rights Um, legally than people in criminal detention.
But ICE and federal agents have been shown to be, whether it's knowledgeable or not, completely disrespectful of, of those rights and, and at times of staff in trying to dictate, like you said-
... what kind of, uh, what kind of, uh, care and what kind of space can be allowed a, a patient.
But the other thing that came up and, and I said it before, but it's worth repeating, there's no safe discharge into ICE custody.
And as we're going to have increasing, you know, anticipated increasing, um, federal government violence and, and, and as a result, increased interactions with the healthcare, um, system in those spaces, um, you know, right, it becomes incumbent on healthcare providers and, and other people working in the hospital to know how to interact with those authorities, um, and you know, how to take care of their patients.
Um, do you wanna say any more about how you come to th- this conversation or, you know, what you take from what's happened at, uh, Allen Hospital to, uh, Belgal or at, at other interactions between patients, uh, healthcare workers and, you know, these federal government forces?
[laughs] Um, I think one thing I'll say in terms of kind of takeaways and next steps are how do we create a, uh, an infrastructure that empowers healthcare workers to do the right thing, whether that's admitting for a safe discharge plan-
... whether that is, uh, delaying discharge until we are able to know for certain that someone has been connected to legal representation.
No, I would, I would just add to your point that, um, for people who don't know, it is routine as a, as a trauma physician to delay discharge.
For example, you know, if someone has a wound and needs wound care, who is therefore a criminal, maybe even the shooter in a shootout, if they're under our care and they have wound issues, you know, we're not gonna discharge them to somewhere where they're not gonna get wound care.
... you know, regardless of what crime that they, uh, have been accused of or committed.
And for there to be this, this uncertainty or opacity for healthcare workers specifically surrounding what they can and cannot do, um, this is an example of, uh, uh, those sort of confusion tactics in real time.
And, you know, we've had people on the show, including from, uh, from Minnesota and also other people, um-
And of course, you know, people in civil detention, in immigration de- detention typically actually have more rights Um, legally than people in criminal detention.
But ICE and federal agents have been shown to be, whether it's knowledgeable or not, completely disrespectful of, of those rights and, and at times of staff in trying to dictate, like you said-
... what kind of, uh, what kind of, uh, care and what kind of space can be allowed a, a patient.
But the other thing that came up and, and I said it before, but it's worth repeating, there's no safe discharge into ICE custody.
And as we're going to have increasing, you know, anticipated increasing, um, federal government violence and, and, and as a result, increased interactions with the healthcare, um, system in those spaces, um, you know, right, it becomes incumbent on healthcare providers and, and other people working in the hospital to know how to interact with those authorities, um, and you know, how to take care of their patients.
Um, do you wanna say any more about how you come to th- this conversation or, you know, what you take from what's happened at, uh, Allen Hospital to, uh, Belgal or at, at other interactions between patients, uh, healthcare workers and, you know, these federal government forces?
[laughs] Um, I think one thing I'll say in terms of kind of takeaways and next steps are how do we create a, uh, an infrastructure that empowers healthcare workers to do the right thing, whether that's admitting for a safe discharge plan-
... whether that is, uh, delaying discharge until we are able to know for certain that someone has been connected to legal representation.
No, I would, I would just add to your point that, um, for people who don't know, it is routine as a, as a trauma physician to delay discharge.
For example, you know, if someone has a wound and needs wound care, who is therefore a criminal, maybe even the shooter in a shootout, if they're under our care and they have wound issues, you know, we're not gonna discharge them to somewhere where they're not gonna get wound care.
... you know, regardless of what crime that they, uh, have been accused of or committed.
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