Season 10, Episode 5: The Rules That Make Us: Why Culture Matters in CX and EX

So reading your book really reminded me about customer experience being much more than just touch points and journeys.

So we often think, um, in isolation of touch points, digital touch points, physical touch points, omni-channel as we call it, and customer journeys, but experience really sits within culture, and customer experience has been around since time began really, um, you know, since people really started trading or giving each other experiences or products.

And today, experience really does sit in culture, doesn't it? When we think of Disneyland or we think of going to church or whatever religion, um, attending a football match, um, that people are really participating in something much bigger than themselves.

What do you think all these experiences have in common?

You know, working with you over the years, I think I... you've kind of opened my eyes a little bit more to this about what customer experience really is, that idea of, you know, going to Disneyland.

I went to Disneyland for the first time about, uh, a year ago, and I took my kids there, and I'll be completely honest, there was a lot of it that I was not expecting to like.

First 30 minutes of being there, I was looking around, and I was absolutely in awe.

I was like, "There's something about this place that just feels completely different." And then after about an hour, it was even gone beyond that.

I'd gone beyond awe, and I just lived it.

I was just, e- everything was normal.

The fact that there was music playing everywhere that you go, that was just normal after a while.

And this world that you go into in Disneyland just suddenly became normalized.

And the excitement throughout the whole day, I didn't really realize it until I left, and then I felt the exhaustion because I'd been excited all day.

So that experience was quite moving, and I think that i- in previous conversations, you've described it as that idea of wonder.

How do you embody wonder in your experience? And I think that's incredible.

Going back sort of from an anthropological point of view, this is, and I put this into the book, is that Émile Durkheim described this as a collective effervescence.

So, like, the bubbles that, that sort of rise up, uh, and pop is we all do that together, and there's something kind of magical in the air.

He talked about it in terms of religion and religious gatherings.

And I think that, you know, that, I mean, that was a very powerful phrase when it came out.

It really captured people's imagination, this idea of collective effervescence.

And, uh, I recently went to the park to watch the eclipse, and that felt like everybody had gathered in a place to kind of respect the wonder that was going on.

Mm.

Everyone had brought their colanders or, you know, glasses-

[laughs]

... and they'd all brought all this sort of special equipment in order to enjoy the moment.