Talking Strategy, Making History
Jul 10, 2026 · 39 min · 9 segments
"We talk about how and why candidates who identify as democratic socialists are winning in elections across the country. What are the potentials--and the dilemmas and pitfalls--for the emerging Left…
Dick FlacksHost
And one point I would say that you didn't mention, on the one hand, there's this internal conflict, you might say, battle for that you just described.
But on the other side is the fact that people from center to left who believe in some form of democracy have to have some degree of common ground and unity to defeat the fascist uh rise on the right and so that adds to you know intellectually the fascination of this moment but it's a you know means that people like us who want to help people understand this may have a role to play right now in helping people clarify their thoughts so why are all those things wrong that you've been Or why the commentaries are wrong.
Well, I mean, you know, it's obviously there's like bad faith commentary about like what it means to have an active vociferous successful left wing of the democratic party, you know, by people who just don't agree with those politics.
We'll sort of like make up reasons why it's bad for the party or bad for the country or why.
And we'll probably get into these weeds a bit, but like, why dsa the current dsa affiliated you know politicians and activists are are like different than real democratic socialism or safer democratic socialism or something and like People are finding all kinds of reasons to be upset.
And when it's just like, whatever, they don't agree with moving the party to the left.
They don't agree with, you know, breaking with neoliberal orthodoxies because they agree with those things.
I just wish people would be sort of honest about it because it's a congressional election and, you know, people are winning elections in places where they come from or the popular sentiment of those of the districts or they, they are, they are propelled by it.
And there's just like the idea that voters in, in Brooklyn or even in, in sort of suburban Bay area, California, where, you know, where progressives have won some of these primaries, like that they have to conform their messaging, their arguments, their policies, their priorities to like what, the belt like beltway pundits think middle america once or is afraid of or into or whatever it's it's a asinine idea so so that's why that group is wrong and then i think you know there's there are people who are sort of still not recognizing that The people that are winning are Democrats and like they're going to have to function as Democrats and be Democrats in the legislative houses that they're in and establish, you know, coalitions and, you know, build relationships among other Democrats in order to move their agenda and so forth.
That's all incredibly unhelpful to the people that we're electing and that are going to get in there and we want to be successful.
So to simplify matters a little bit, within the socialist way of thinking or practicing, there's two kinds of approaches.
One is thinks of itself as highly principled and dissenting and standing for ideas that are minority ideas and wanting to defend those ideas.
And the other is the majoritarian idea that you can be, as a socialist, your best chance of making change is to be part of a much broader society what amount to center-left types of coalitions in which the issue is winning a majority to the greatest degree of reform of the capitalist system in people's interests that can be done.
And that's a real battle that's been going on for 150 years within the socialist system.
And probably both elements are needed in terms of various functions they might have in terms of debate and thinking and ideas coming out of the left.
So you're saying anyone who's running for office with the intention of winning and does win then has to think, how do we govern? Not just how do we get our ideas out, but now how do we...
How do those ideas fit into the actual governing situation that they're in? And yet the people who are afraid of this left wing within the Democratic Party, whether they are centrist Democrats or corporate people who want to control the Democratic Party or Republicans, you know, never Trump or Republicans who want to find a home and they can't imagine easily finding a home in a leftish Democratic Party.
Those are some of the kinds of people that you're saying have bad faith, and I agree with you completely.
They're attacking people as if they were dangerous enemies to the Democratic Party or to the United States, rather than simply saying, look, there's a debate over corporate power that we need to have, and that's what's actually possible now.
And one point I would say that you didn't mention, on the one hand, there's this internal conflict, you might say, battle for that you just described.
But on the other side is the fact that people from center to left who believe in some form of democracy have to have some degree of common ground and unity to defeat the fascist uh rise on the right and so that adds to you know intellectually the fascination of this moment but it's a you know means that people like us who want to help people understand this may have a role to play right now in helping people clarify their thoughts so why are all those things wrong that you've been Or why the commentaries are wrong.
Well, I mean, you know, it's obviously there's like bad faith commentary about like what it means to have an active vociferous successful left wing of the democratic party, you know, by people who just don't agree with those politics.
We'll sort of like make up reasons why it's bad for the party or bad for the country or why.
And we'll probably get into these weeds a bit, but like, why dsa the current dsa affiliated you know politicians and activists are are like different than real democratic socialism or safer democratic socialism or something and like People are finding all kinds of reasons to be upset.
And when it's just like, whatever, they don't agree with moving the party to the left.
They don't agree with, you know, breaking with neoliberal orthodoxies because they agree with those things.
I just wish people would be sort of honest about it because it's a congressional election and, you know, people are winning elections in places where they come from or the popular sentiment of those of the districts or they, they are, they are propelled by it.
And there's just like the idea that voters in, in Brooklyn or even in, in sort of suburban Bay area, California, where, you know, where progressives have won some of these primaries, like that they have to conform their messaging, their arguments, their policies, their priorities to like what, the belt like beltway pundits think middle america once or is afraid of or into or whatever it's it's a asinine idea so so that's why that group is wrong and then i think you know there's there are people who are sort of still not recognizing that The people that are winning are Democrats and like they're going to have to function as Democrats and be Democrats in the legislative houses that they're in and establish, you know, coalitions and, you know, build relationships among other Democrats in order to move their agenda and so forth.
That's all incredibly unhelpful to the people that we're electing and that are going to get in there and we want to be successful.
So to simplify matters a little bit, within the socialist way of thinking or practicing, there's two kinds of approaches.
One is thinks of itself as highly principled and dissenting and standing for ideas that are minority ideas and wanting to defend those ideas.
And the other is the majoritarian idea that you can be, as a socialist, your best chance of making change is to be part of a much broader society what amount to center-left types of coalitions in which the issue is winning a majority to the greatest degree of reform of the capitalist system in people's interests that can be done.
And that's a real battle that's been going on for 150 years within the socialist system.
And probably both elements are needed in terms of various functions they might have in terms of debate and thinking and ideas coming out of the left.
So you're saying anyone who's running for office with the intention of winning and does win then has to think, how do we govern? Not just how do we get our ideas out, but now how do we...
How do those ideas fit into the actual governing situation that they're in? And yet the people who are afraid of this left wing within the Democratic Party, whether they are centrist Democrats or corporate people who want to control the Democratic Party or Republicans, you know, never Trump or Republicans who want to find a home and they can't imagine easily finding a home in a leftish Democratic Party.
Those are some of the kinds of people that you're saying have bad faith, and I agree with you completely.
They're attacking people as if they were dangerous enemies to the Democratic Party or to the United States, rather than simply saying, look, there's a debate over corporate power that we need to have, and that's what's actually possible now.
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