Spiritual Unfoldment With John Butler
Jun 4, 2026 · 39 min · 8 segments
Most people are fascinated by their mind - they love their mind. I'm not particularly interested in it. I'd rather look out the window, keep my feet on the ground and use my common sense. Hosted by…
John ButlerGuestNicolaHostAs I'm reading, you, you write, "The ordinary nature of mind cannot be comprehended." And then you go, "For spiritual insight opens up beyond mind, at least what we commonly call mind." And then later, "...
and that lower thinking part tries to arrange itself in order to conform." So, so what do...
what, what advice do you have for us that have maybe not have had an experience beyond mind?
Intellectually, I understand what you're saying, but, um, do I really comprehend it? I would imagine no.
You said, what advice do you have for us that have not actually experienced a beyond mind state?

Well, there was a, there was a great, uh, soldier in British history known as the Duke of Wellington, and one of his...

he, he, uh, he's known for his pithy sayings, and one of them was, "Never give advice to anybody unless you're in a position to see that they carry it out." And so I don't think I'll give advice to anybody on what to do or not to do with their minds.
Smart.
Wise.

[laughs] And I'm not too sure I've ever done anything much with my mind, really.

The last thing they want to do is to... well, they may have some w- some sort of wooly notion in their heads [laughs] of, of getting beyond the mind, but it's not usually anything very clear.

You might, you might be worse off without it, so I would- I wouldn't be in a hurry to, to get rid of... to go beyond your mind.

But I tell you that something very simple, um, often I think one of the most useful practices anybody can do is just look out of the window.

Now, it's, it's, uh, early evening on a late spring day, a sort of, uh, rather cloudy sunshine, light coming down on the trees of the distant hillside.

Where does the sky end? Well, there are a few wispy clouds about and beyond that there's light coming through.
As I'm reading, you, you write, "The ordinary nature of mind cannot be comprehended." And then you go, "For spiritual insight opens up beyond mind, at least what we commonly call mind." And then later, "...
and that lower thinking part tries to arrange itself in order to conform." So, so what do...
what, what advice do you have for us that have maybe not have had an experience beyond mind?
Intellectually, I understand what you're saying, but, um, do I really comprehend it? I would imagine no.
You said, what advice do you have for us that have not actually experienced a beyond mind state?

Well, there was a, there was a great, uh, soldier in British history known as the Duke of Wellington, and one of his...

he, he, uh, he's known for his pithy sayings, and one of them was, "Never give advice to anybody unless you're in a position to see that they carry it out." And so I don't think I'll give advice to anybody on what to do or not to do with their minds.
Smart.
Wise.

[laughs] And I'm not too sure I've ever done anything much with my mind, really.

The last thing they want to do is to... well, they may have some w- some sort of wooly notion in their heads [laughs] of, of getting beyond the mind, but it's not usually anything very clear.

You might, you might be worse off without it, so I would- I wouldn't be in a hurry to, to get rid of... to go beyond your mind.

But I tell you that something very simple, um, often I think one of the most useful practices anybody can do is just look out of the window.

Now, it's, it's, uh, early evening on a late spring day, a sort of, uh, rather cloudy sunshine, light coming down on the trees of the distant hillside.

Where does the sky end? Well, there are a few wispy clouds about and beyond that there's light coming through.
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