'Defense in Depth is Dead'

Charlie, great to see you again.

We met out at RSA.

Thanks so much for taking the time to come on Security Breach.

My pleasure.

I'm happy to be here.

Can't wait for the conversation.

Well, a couple of things that we talked about at RSA really stuck with me.

I just wanted to throw a couple of these quotes at you, and we can kind of dive in from there.

One of them was that getting past this whole notion of you get to...

You don't need to be perfect, basically.

Getting past that need to be perfect.

And I thought that was really important when we talk about cybersecurity, especially in the industrial sector, where sometimes folks just try to take on way too much stuff in trying to get to that perfect s- perfect point.

So maybe you could expand on that a little bit and, and kind of tell me where you're coming from.

I, I think there's two aspects to it.

Maybe the first one is I, I have this bugbear that we all seem to be questing after this paradise of perfect protection, right? That just doesn't exist.

Uh, and it hasn't existed, and it is definitely not going to exist in the future as things like Mythos begin to take apart our environments.

So I, I find that the cyber industry tends to be really focused on we're gonna close everything, we're gonna fix everything, and it's, it just drives us to madness a- and it's not an effective model.

And I also look at it, I guess, when I think about recovery capability.

I've had to recover a lot of companies, you know, about 30 at this point, and, and you know, they always make it.

And they, they generally make it because they're 5% ready, and then they fill the other 95% with acts of heroism and smart people and hard work, which is not a strategy for recovery, right? And it's expensive.

But they get there, and my message always to those organizations is, "Don't try to get that perfect.

Don't get 100%.

Just get better.

Get 5% better, 10% better," 'cause each one of those steps takes out a big chunk of what your people will have to do with their bodies when these things really happen.

So yeah, I'm a big fan of don't get perfect, man, just get better.