MRA’s Courageously Candid Coaching Podcast with Matthew Radley
Aug 17, 2026 · 33 min · 9 segments
In this episode, host Matthew Radley is joined by Shan Saba, Director at Brightwork, board member, founder, trustee and leadership coach, to explore the lack of diversity within the professional…
Shan SabaGuest
Matthew RadleyHostHilaryHost
So, Shan, the purpose of this conversation and having you in here is for, if we think about the audience who might potentially listen to this, would be people who are maybe applying for future years on the Inclusion Coaching with Confidence programme, But also for coaching pools internally and for coaches going through CWC, just really understanding around the impact of an inclusive understanding in their work.
So I think I shared with you when we first started that the thing that frustrated me the most was that I would go on CPD events for coaches and I would just see people looking like me, looking back at me.
Um, and there was a, as a real sense for me that it wasn't representative of the world that we live in and hence wanting to do something different.
And that inclusion remind us is all forms of inclusion, um, from societal norms.
about organizations that provide coaching, executive development, et cetera, if you have any at all.
And I think that's probably indicative of the coaching sector because it was something that wasn't available to me.
was it the level I'm at? Is it the nature of the industry? But something being the preserve of those, I think, I was told a long time ago that coaching seemed to be the preserve of those who already had a nice house and a nice car.
And I suppose coming from the background I came from in an industry where you can see the impact in changing cultures and changing demographics really rapidly, and I'm talking about recruitment and across the UK, The demographics of the country has changed pretty rapidly, but also our awareness of mental health, of neurodiversity, sexual orientation, all those things has changed in a lifetime of my time at work.
But what I didn't see, still don't see, is those more senior roles where that change has been impacted.
And so when you talk about what's my lived experience of maybe experience coaching, zero, very little, some internal stuff, but never to the level and standard of, when I completed CWC, and sorry, I say completed CWC, you don't stop once you finish the course.
So it puts you, put me in a far better place in work, in life, in relationships than I ever would have been.
I couldn't have accessed it without that gateway, that gateway being open to me four years ago, five years ago.
And if we think about the sorts of delegates that we get across that programme, so we've had, you know, people with the most diverse of backgrounds coming in, as we've talked about, there might be Uh, coming out of prison and looking for their kind of first job.
It might be that they're an ex asylum seeker, might be a person of color, might be somebody who's neurodivergent, maybe somebody who's young in the workforce and maybe not thought of as being of a professional coaching level.
So, Shan, the purpose of this conversation and having you in here is for, if we think about the audience who might potentially listen to this, would be people who are maybe applying for future years on the Inclusion Coaching with Confidence programme, But also for coaching pools internally and for coaches going through CWC, just really understanding around the impact of an inclusive understanding in their work.
So I think I shared with you when we first started that the thing that frustrated me the most was that I would go on CPD events for coaches and I would just see people looking like me, looking back at me.
Um, and there was a, as a real sense for me that it wasn't representative of the world that we live in and hence wanting to do something different.
And that inclusion remind us is all forms of inclusion, um, from societal norms.
about organizations that provide coaching, executive development, et cetera, if you have any at all.
And I think that's probably indicative of the coaching sector because it was something that wasn't available to me.
was it the level I'm at? Is it the nature of the industry? But something being the preserve of those, I think, I was told a long time ago that coaching seemed to be the preserve of those who already had a nice house and a nice car.
And I suppose coming from the background I came from in an industry where you can see the impact in changing cultures and changing demographics really rapidly, and I'm talking about recruitment and across the UK, The demographics of the country has changed pretty rapidly, but also our awareness of mental health, of neurodiversity, sexual orientation, all those things has changed in a lifetime of my time at work.
But what I didn't see, still don't see, is those more senior roles where that change has been impacted.
And so when you talk about what's my lived experience of maybe experience coaching, zero, very little, some internal stuff, but never to the level and standard of, when I completed CWC, and sorry, I say completed CWC, you don't stop once you finish the course.
So it puts you, put me in a far better place in work, in life, in relationships than I ever would have been.
I couldn't have accessed it without that gateway, that gateway being open to me four years ago, five years ago.
And if we think about the sorts of delegates that we get across that programme, so we've had, you know, people with the most diverse of backgrounds coming in, as we've talked about, there might be Uh, coming out of prison and looking for their kind of first job.
It might be that they're an ex asylum seeker, might be a person of color, might be somebody who's neurodivergent, maybe somebody who's young in the workforce and maybe not thought of as being of a professional coaching level.
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