It's not all about the numbers!
Aug 18, 2026 · 20 min · 9 segments
Every organisation reaches the same crossroads. A major transformation is on the horizon, deadlines are slipping, and someone inevitably says: *"Let's bring in the consultants."* But are…
Mike RoseHost
Joel JohansenGuest
Chris ArgentHost
talk about this a little bit in one of the previous So What's where I think what we were doing in the previous one, I can't remember exactly what the topic was now, but we were conflating external experts and the big four consultancies.
And I think that for me, what will be useful to dig into in this conversation a little bit more is that what are our perceptions of the big four? And I realise as a Manchester United fan, Joel, you're used to your football club dropping out and coming back into the big city.
But yeah, so I think it'd be really interesting to focus on that because I've got a perception of, I think bringing in external experts is really important for organisations.
But actually, I have a slightly more pejorative view of consultants from the big four consultancies and what they bring.
And just a reminder on the conclusion of the last time, we all, I think, agreed independent advisors were welcome.
But we challenged consultants coming in, not necessarily being the same and as much value.
And these consultants are part of a consultancy, right, which is what we're talking about now.
And I think building on a little bit of our conversation from last time around coaching, it's a little bit for me, the difference between the two is external experts are people with experience and they're mentoring and helping a business do things.
Whereas my experience of working with consultants from consultancies is quite often they come in with a generic model.
that they then try to apply to your business without masses of knowledge of how your business works or the business world in itself.
And I was talking to somebody, I can't remember when it was, like a couple of days ago, over the last couple of days.
But talking about how quite often working with, say, a big four consultant, so somebody that's been sent in to run a project, you end up usually with quite a junior member of staff, somebody that's quite inexperienced in terms of the workplace.
But quite often they're probably paid at a certain level, but then charged out by the consultancy at a much higher level.
And I feel that that is almost like some of the problem that we have with consultancies is that profit motive rather than quality motive.
talk about this a little bit in one of the previous So What's where I think what we were doing in the previous one, I can't remember exactly what the topic was now, but we were conflating external experts and the big four consultancies.
And I think that for me, what will be useful to dig into in this conversation a little bit more is that what are our perceptions of the big four? And I realise as a Manchester United fan, Joel, you're used to your football club dropping out and coming back into the big city.
But yeah, so I think it'd be really interesting to focus on that because I've got a perception of, I think bringing in external experts is really important for organisations.
But actually, I have a slightly more pejorative view of consultants from the big four consultancies and what they bring.
And just a reminder on the conclusion of the last time, we all, I think, agreed independent advisors were welcome.
But we challenged consultants coming in, not necessarily being the same and as much value.
And these consultants are part of a consultancy, right, which is what we're talking about now.
And I think building on a little bit of our conversation from last time around coaching, it's a little bit for me, the difference between the two is external experts are people with experience and they're mentoring and helping a business do things.
Whereas my experience of working with consultants from consultancies is quite often they come in with a generic model.
that they then try to apply to your business without masses of knowledge of how your business works or the business world in itself.
And I was talking to somebody, I can't remember when it was, like a couple of days ago, over the last couple of days.
But talking about how quite often working with, say, a big four consultant, so somebody that's been sent in to run a project, you end up usually with quite a junior member of staff, somebody that's quite inexperienced in terms of the workplace.
But quite often they're probably paid at a certain level, but then charged out by the consultancy at a much higher level.
And I feel that that is almost like some of the problem that we have with consultancies is that profit motive rather than quality motive.
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