I Catch Killers with Gary Jubelin
Sep 12, 2026 · 52 min · 10 segments
Former solicitor Karina Berger walked away from the law to become the researcher and producer behind Australia's biggest true crime investigations with investigative journalist Hedley Thomas…
I, I've listened to some of the episodes of The Poisoned Wife that we'll, we'll talk about in, in more detail that's out now.
And I find it, uh, find it fascinating but also quite frustrating hearing bits and pieces of evidence.
I mean, the benefit of hindsight can be in play, of course, but often you look at what happened at about the time of the person's disappearance, then you think, "How can more not have been done at the time? Like, why was this left for so long?" And of course, a, a delay in investigating and in gathering evidence can really prejudice potential investigations and legal proceedings down the track.
track.Oh, m-most definitely, and I, I spent a number of years, well, uh, lots of, uh, re-investigations into unsolved homicides and time in the unsolved homicide, uh, squad or unit.
And I look at how the investigations, uh, were conducted, and you say with the benefit of hindsight, 'cause I always like to put that disclaimer out there that, uh, it's easier with, with hindsight.
But it's almost, uh, mind-numbing when you look at some of the things that have been missed or not followed up at the time that are absolutely crucial.
And with the passage of time, with people's memories or the loss of exhibits and different things, it makes the job a lot harder.
There are just so many things that could often have been done better at the time, or even if there'd just been a pretty basic investigation, it could have really changed the outcome for some of these victims and their families and friends.
And w-we, we're gonna be talking about, uh, some of these historical cold cases and un-unsolved murders.
You would have got a sense, I dare say, in the work that you're doing now, a sense of the impact it has on the families and relatives, where situations, uh, remain unsolved and the frustration and the intergenerational trauma that can come when, uh, answers haven't been forthcoming into what happened to a loved one.
Absolutely, and I think that's been so acute in the Bronwyn Winfield case in particular.
You know, living with ambiguous loss, not knowing where Bronwyn's remains are, not knowing for sure what happened to Bronwyn.
I can really h-hear the, the pain and the frustration in Bronwyn's brother Andy's voice when he speaks.
I, I feel so much for these families, and I suppose, th- we were talking about the conflict between being a lawyer and a journalist before, but I think because so many of these families have literally reached the end of the road where there's nowhere else for them to go, it does allow me to put some of my legal cautiousness aside [laughs] and just go for it in a way through journalism, because, you know, what have these families got to lose?
And there-therein lies that division between the looking at it from the legal perspective and then, uh, the more emotional, uh, side of things where you're dealing with the victims' families and, uh, relatives, that you can display that empathy.
I, I think, and, uh, in my experience in, uh, homicide and when the process is going through the courts or the investigations, sometimes the families felt betrayed because no one seemed to, uh, care about their loved one in the way the language was spoke-- or the language used in courts and the frustration there.
I, I've listened to some of the episodes of The Poisoned Wife that we'll, we'll talk about in, in more detail that's out now.
And I find it, uh, find it fascinating but also quite frustrating hearing bits and pieces of evidence.
I mean, the benefit of hindsight can be in play, of course, but often you look at what happened at about the time of the person's disappearance, then you think, "How can more not have been done at the time? Like, why was this left for so long?" And of course, a, a delay in investigating and in gathering evidence can really prejudice potential investigations and legal proceedings down the track.
track.Oh, m-most definitely, and I, I spent a number of years, well, uh, lots of, uh, re-investigations into unsolved homicides and time in the unsolved homicide, uh, squad or unit.
And I look at how the investigations, uh, were conducted, and you say with the benefit of hindsight, 'cause I always like to put that disclaimer out there that, uh, it's easier with, with hindsight.
But it's almost, uh, mind-numbing when you look at some of the things that have been missed or not followed up at the time that are absolutely crucial.
And with the passage of time, with people's memories or the loss of exhibits and different things, it makes the job a lot harder.
There are just so many things that could often have been done better at the time, or even if there'd just been a pretty basic investigation, it could have really changed the outcome for some of these victims and their families and friends.
And w-we, we're gonna be talking about, uh, some of these historical cold cases and un-unsolved murders.
You would have got a sense, I dare say, in the work that you're doing now, a sense of the impact it has on the families and relatives, where situations, uh, remain unsolved and the frustration and the intergenerational trauma that can come when, uh, answers haven't been forthcoming into what happened to a loved one.
Absolutely, and I think that's been so acute in the Bronwyn Winfield case in particular.
You know, living with ambiguous loss, not knowing where Bronwyn's remains are, not knowing for sure what happened to Bronwyn.
I can really h-hear the, the pain and the frustration in Bronwyn's brother Andy's voice when he speaks.
I, I feel so much for these families, and I suppose, th- we were talking about the conflict between being a lawyer and a journalist before, but I think because so many of these families have literally reached the end of the road where there's nowhere else for them to go, it does allow me to put some of my legal cautiousness aside [laughs] and just go for it in a way through journalism, because, you know, what have these families got to lose?
And there-therein lies that division between the looking at it from the legal perspective and then, uh, the more emotional, uh, side of things where you're dealing with the victims' families and, uh, relatives, that you can display that empathy.
I, I think, and, uh, in my experience in, uh, homicide and when the process is going through the courts or the investigations, sometimes the families felt betrayed because no one seemed to, uh, care about their loved one in the way the language was spoke-- or the language used in courts and the frustration there.
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