Jack Mallaby: Stop Making Pupils Fit the System

Yeah.

And that's, uh, the, the difference between, I suppose, mainstream and, and a specialist setting I think is really interesting.

If I sort of got you to think about what those two settings have kind of taught you, maybe as a leader, as a person that's working with those young people, what would you say you...

Obviously there will be many things I'm sure, but, like, kind of funneling it down to kind of the differences between maybe how you work or how you lead in those different settings, what, w- what would you, what would you say?

I think the, the main thing for me, and like you said, there are [laughs] this, this could go on for ages, right? There are loads of different aspects, and it's a really complicated kind of area to work within.

But the main thing for me is that inclusion is, like, the core of the culture in a, in a specialist setting, and not just a bolt on.

And that's in no disrespect to mainstreams.

There are plenty of mainstreams that absolutely try to, to do that, but there are also lots of teachers that may have been teaching 20, 30 years, haven't been experienced in the SEN that they have, have had.

And, and aren't, you know, I, I suppose, uh, have their train of thought of why things should happen or things have always happened this way and this is how I should teach.

And it's really hard to push that culture in with, when you've got kind of, uh, difficulties like that.

But also the size difference.

It, it really is...

You know, I, I was in, the last mainstream school I was in was y- you know, 1,200, 1,500 students.

Before that, the mainstream school I was in was 2,000.

And you think my setting at the moment, we've got 71 pupils.

Yes, okay, they are o- of the highest need and they, they all have EHCPs and need a huge amount of support.

But it's far, I think it, it, it...

When you're in a setting like that with the level of need you have, the staff that are here have a true understanding of what inclusion means because you wouldn't be able to work in a setting like this if you didn't.

It would be, it, you just wouldn't, you wouldn't last.

You, you wouldn't be able to deal with the things that you're dealing with and come back to work the next day and, and try and, you know, work with that, those young people again.

And naturally, I suppose, you know, in it, like you've just mentioned, sort of the, the, the numbers difference there, it, it, that striving for relational practice that you get in massive mainstream schools, which, you know, loads of schools do brilliantly, is really, really difficult.

Whereas when you've got a smaller number of young people, although like you say, their needs are higher, it obviously makes it more accessible, doesn't it, in terms of the ratios and the bit, the amount of contact time and all that sort of stuff.

And obviously-

I mean, and the, the, if you're thinking of consistency, you mentioned relational approach.

When you've got that number of staff, even if they're trying their best and they really wanna do well, the, y- it, the ability to make that approach consistent compared to when you've got a smaller number of staff because you've got less students and the, you know, the, the cohort of teachers and, and support staff is much smaller, it's, it, the ability to make that approach consistent is you've, you've got far more time to be able to, to put that into practice and constantly review it and make sure that you're doing the right thing.