We Can’t Prove We’re Conscious, Let Alone AI (with Geoffrey Lee and Grant Slater)

Machines are starting to act like humans. Does that mean they’re conscious? The problem is we haven’t been able to prove how or why humans are conscious yet either. So why would we be able to offer any answers about AI?  In this episode, Berkeley philosopher of mind Geoffrey Lee argues there are no facts coming to save the day when it comes to consciousness, so that shouldn’t be the point. If consciousness can’t be reliably proven or measured, why should we use it to tell us how we should treat other creatures or entities? Calling into question the entire field of consciousness science, Lee posits that consciousness is as consciousness does. And the interesting part is how humanity will embrace or reject machines that do consciousness quite convincingly. Subscribe to Futurology on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Futurologypod The Futurology Podcast — full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwkiuf1eRbAAHP4p--2IFJbn0CIdaZMva Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk **Mentioned in this Episode:** The Search for the Inner Light: Finding Consciousness in a Physical World — Geoffrey Lee (Book, forthcoming) AI Consciousness, Pluralism, and Anthropocentrism — Geoffrey Lee (Essay, 2026) Consciousness, Pseudo-Consciousness, and the Moral Significance of Consciousness — Geoffrey Lee (Essay, 2026) Selfless Experience — Geoffrey Lee (Essay, 2017) Alien Subjectivity and the Importance of Consciousness — Geoffrey Lee (Essay, 2018) Materialism and the Epistemic Significance of Consciousness — Geoffrey Lee (Essay, 2013) What Is It Like to Be a Bat? — Thomas Nagel (Essay, 1974) **Where to find Geoffrey Lee:** Faculty page: Geoffrey Lee, UC Berkeley Philosophy Personal site: geoffreyleephilosophy.com **Show ideas and feedback? Email:** futurology@berggruen.org   **Learn more about the Berggruen Institute** https://www.berggruen.org   Follow Futurology! Instagram:  / futurologypod Twitter/X:  / futurologypod Tiktok:  / futurologypod Facebook:  / berggrueninst LinkedIn:  / berggrueninst Bluesky:  / futurologypod   **Credits** Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, & Jason Hoch Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, & Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Audio Engineer: Kyle Scott Wilson   Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland for the Berggruen Institute in Los Angeles, California.