Financial Planner Life Podcast
Aug 20, 2026 · 53 min · 13 segments
Trevor Greetham, Head of Multi-Asset at Royal London Asset Management, still measures market timing with a clock face borrowed from a 1930s newspaper. The idea dates back to a reference Trevor found…
Trevor GreethamGuestRobin EllisGuestSam OakesHostSo looking at building portfolios then, so what are the key inputs you look for when you're building portfolios, Trevor?

Um, well, I mean, you know, diversification is key to us, and the two things we believe in is diversification and active management.

Um, and, you know, we're looking for asset classes that, that make sense over the long run, that we can understand why they should be paying you more than cash over the long run.

So, you know, if there's a risk premium, what is it? Is it because it's an illiquid asset or because it's a risky asset? You know, whenever something's giving you a return better than cash, nothing's a free lunch.

So you've gotta understand, you know, what is it about this asset class that means sometimes it will be uncomfortable to hold.

Um, and then, then really trying to look at asset classes that when you combine them together, give you more as a sum of the parts than you had individually.

They're a really interesting asset class because it's not widely included routinely in portfolios still.

Um, negatively correlated with both stocks and bonds when there's a geopolitical shock, like we saw in March.

And what that means is if you've got a kind of risk-targeted portfolio, you can in- include the commodities, and you haven't really changed the overall risk level.

They're uncorrelated, so they give you that hedge, really, as a kind of anti-bond in a portfolio and inflation hedge, and haven't changed the overall risk level.

So individually, they've gotta make sense, but they've also gotta make sense when combined.

The idea of the investment clock is it's kind of thinking about the global business cycle as a sort of clock face.

And you can imagine you've got these different points around the clock face, and that idea goes back...

London Evening Standard, is it the right time in the investment clock to buy a house in London? You know.

The clock face was labeled things like recession, recovery, late cycle, slowdown, and there were different asset classes.
So looking at building portfolios then, so what are the key inputs you look for when you're building portfolios, Trevor?

Um, well, I mean, you know, diversification is key to us, and the two things we believe in is diversification and active management.

Um, and, you know, we're looking for asset classes that, that make sense over the long run, that we can understand why they should be paying you more than cash over the long run.

So, you know, if there's a risk premium, what is it? Is it because it's an illiquid asset or because it's a risky asset? You know, whenever something's giving you a return better than cash, nothing's a free lunch.

So you've gotta understand, you know, what is it about this asset class that means sometimes it will be uncomfortable to hold.

Um, and then, then really trying to look at asset classes that when you combine them together, give you more as a sum of the parts than you had individually.

They're a really interesting asset class because it's not widely included routinely in portfolios still.

Um, negatively correlated with both stocks and bonds when there's a geopolitical shock, like we saw in March.

And what that means is if you've got a kind of risk-targeted portfolio, you can in- include the commodities, and you haven't really changed the overall risk level.

They're uncorrelated, so they give you that hedge, really, as a kind of anti-bond in a portfolio and inflation hedge, and haven't changed the overall risk level.

So individually, they've gotta make sense, but they've also gotta make sense when combined.

The idea of the investment clock is it's kind of thinking about the global business cycle as a sort of clock face.

And you can imagine you've got these different points around the clock face, and that idea goes back...

London Evening Standard, is it the right time in the investment clock to buy a house in London? You know.

The clock face was labeled things like recession, recovery, late cycle, slowdown, and there were different asset classes.
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