Be Afraid or Fear Not?, with Kutter Callaway

What would it mean to fear rightly—to both fear God and "fear not," to both validate the terror that fits with traumatic events and quell the fright and learn to regulate? For Kutter Callaway, there are deep theological and psychological opportunities available in the horror film genre. To some, that might seem rather inconsistent. But in his new book, Be Afraid: What Horror Reveals About Facing the Darkness, Callaway makes the case that Christians need to be able to face and integrate the undeniable horrors that haunt us. In this conversation with Mark Labberton, Callaway reflects on why the Christian life might be more about discipling fear than eliminating it, how the best horror films can help people integrate trauma rather than defeat it, and why our deepest dread may be of living as vulnerable creatures more than of death itself. They compare Mark's deliberate encounters with severe poverty around the world, reconsider the terrifying elements of the Christmas narrative, open up the dark and neglected corners of Scripture, and ask whether horror trivializes the powers and principalities or exposes how we are implicated in them. Episode Highlights - "If the God of the Christian tradition is in fact the … God around which all of reality turns, it's interesting to me that the … crux, literally, of that story is possibly one of the most horrific things that we could imagine." - "The command … is far less 'do not have fear' but rather 'This is a very fear-inducing situation, but you can trust the person who's here, the person who's delivering the message.'" - "Rarely can we eliminate the trauma. … But there are ways we can live with it … integrate it as if it's the monster under our basement that we almost nurture." - "I think we're afraid of living as vulnerable creatures." - "If you want a story, if you want a God that has seen and experienced the depths of your trauma and your horror and your chaos, boy, have I got a story for you." - "There's not a lot of space in Christian circles to really talk about the fears that drive most of our life." - "I, too, become the monster." About Kutter Callaway Kutter Callaway is the William K. Brehm Chair of Worship, Theology, and the Arts at Fuller Theological Seminary, where he is also associate dean of the Center for Advanced Theological Studies. He holds two PhDs from Fuller, in theology and in psychological science. His newest book, Be Afraid: What Horror Reveals About Facing the Darkness, grew out of his Christianity Today podcast of the same name. Earlier books include Watching TV Religiously, Scoring Transcendence, and the co-authored Deep Focus. An ordained Baptist minister, he lives in Los Angeles with his wife and three daughters. Helpful Links and Resources - Be Afraid: What Horror Reveals About Facing the Darkness, by Kutter Callaway: https://www.ivpress.com/be-afraid - Be Afraid book website: https://www.beafraidbook.com - Be Afraid podcast (from Christianity Today): https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/be-afraid - Conversing episode 67: Scott Derrickson on fear: https://fullerstudio.fuller.edu/scott-derrickson-on-fear Show Notes - Fear and faith - How many "fear not" commands are in the Scriptures? - "Fear not" is regularly spoken in genuinely terrifying moments, pointing toward trust in the messenger rather than literal fearlessness - Perfect love casting out fear vs. the fear of the Lord as wisdom's beginning - What it means to disciple fear, instead of avoiding or eliminating fear - Theology of pop culture meets psychological science - Christian filmmakers calling horror the most theological genre - Post-COVID theaters were rescued by horror, representing nearly 20 percent of movie ticket sales - Callaway's personal exposure-therapy experiment - Horror subgenres - Individual and inherited trauma in recent horror - The Babadook: a mother who keeps the monster in the basement rather than destroying it, a picture of trauma integrated instead of defeated - Self-conscious vulnerability - Terror management theory - Fear of living as fragile creatures running deeper than fear of death - Callaway's lifelong dread of creepy dolls (e.g., Chucky from Child's Play) - The real case behind The Exorcism of Emily Rose and the unexpected spiritual toll - New empathy for first responders - Limit experiences: becoming a parent, losing a child - Guided, deliberate exposure to severe poverty in Asia, Africa, Latin America, and the US - Voyeurism, poverty porn, and needing a community of wisdom afterward - A Christmas Carol as ghost story - The slaughter of the innocents - The cross as brutal state-sponsored execution - Scripture's neglected dark texts and the rarity of sermons on Judges - School shootings, LA fires, and everyday dread - Readers who avoid horror, starting with his mom - Does horror trivialize the powers and principalities? - The Exorcist as serious, terrifying gospel proclamation - Stranger Things and monsters made by institutions meant to protect children - Theological failure as downstream of artistic failure - Horror that implicates the viewer in the evil #Horror #HorrorMovies #FaithAndFear #Halloween #Theology #FaithAndCulture #ChristianFaith #BeAfraid #Conversing