She’s Like A Therapist, If The Thing Causing You Angst Is The Global Economy

Rebecca Patterson is not a therapist by training, but talking to her certainly feels therapeutic. A senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and an independent director at Vanguard, she gets a lot of calls from CEOs, policymakers, and publications like The New York Times that more or less boil down to this question: What in the world is happening to the economy, and how do I survive it? People reach out to her because she's smart, but also, we suspect, because she doesn't respond as if she's above it all. These questions aren't just analytical. Rebecca is in it with us. We talked about how the offshoring of US manufacturing jobs beginning in the '70s and some of the transformations that followed might help us read or at least appreciate what artificial intelligence could do to labor markets. We also asked her about political populism and why she spends so much time thinking about second- and third-order effects of big changes, the things that might not make headlines. **2:11** Rebecca explains how a journalism background, a scholarship to France, and a chance opportunity at JPMorgan launched her career in international economics. **4:40** Journalism became her competitive advantage, helping her filter noise, ask better questions, and communicate complex economic ideas. **7:13** Inflation, war, AI, climate change, and other simultaneous shocks are fueling political populism around the world. **8:26** Today's political instability reflects decades of economic change that have left many workers feeling left behind. **12:12** Why populist policies often fail to solve the problems that drive public frustration. **14:40** Rebecca discusses declining workforce participation and asks who should take responsibility for preparing workers for a changing economy. **16:30** What would a sensible policy response to artificial intelligence should look like as AI reshapes the labor market? **21:47** AI competition with China, export controls, and whether national borders can meaningfully contain AI development **24:23** Why countries that rapidly adopt AI—not just those that invent it—could see the greatest economic gains. **26:47** Looking back at the decline of US manufacturing, Rebecca explains what lessons policymakers should apply to the AI era. **30:28** Rebecca shares the questions CEOs ask most often, from booming stock markets to planning amid unprecedented uncertainty. **32:10** She argues that globalization is evolving rather than disappearing, with companies increasingly pursuing friendshoring and supply-chain diversification. **35:20** Why America's long-term strengths remain intact even as trust among allies has been damaged. **41:32** Rebecca explains the idea behind The Spillover, her podcast exploring the second- and third-order effects of major global events. **44:10** Rebecca is optimistic about improving financial literacy and helping more people thrive in a rapidly changing economy