AudioDharma: Gil Fronsdal's most recent dharma talks
Oct 2, 2026 · 28 min · 4 segments
This talk was given by Gil Fronsdal on 2026.10.02 at the Insight Meditation Center in Redwood City, CA. A machine generated transcript of this talk is available. It has not been edited by a human, so…
Gil FronsdalHost
And the teachings I'm offering these this week for meditation might come as a surprise to some of you.

And that is to, to engage with thinking while you meditate rather than trying to stop thinking.

And some people, even very experienced meditators, this is kind of an unthinkable proposal because it, when they really get into meditation, it feels like they're not thinking at all.

And I don't wanna disagree with that, but, uh, uh, uh, there, there are layers of thinking within us.

And, uh, and those layers go to subtler, subtler, calmer, calmer ways of thinking until some point the thinking, the use of intelligence, recognition, uh, figuring things out, are operating on almost a subverbal level.

If we're walking down a sidewalk in a street, and we see a group of people coming towards us, uh, there, there might not have to be any conscious thinking about it, intentional thinking about it.

Maybe the group of kids are a bunch of kindergarten kids with their teachers, and so of course you step aside and walk around them.

So as we get deeper in meditation, we're still engaging something that's right there on the interface and the, and the, or maybe the gray zone between nonverbal and verbal thinking, active thinking, and, and, and this kind of deeper intelligence.

And it's a whole different li-li-layer of thinking than discursive thinking and calculated thinking.

And to know about this and appreciate it and to have a way of just allowing for it and, and slightly intending it, "Yes, stay here.

Stay here," and to learn how to do it in a way that really supports the meditation, that it is meditative.

W- And in time here is, I think, is a musical term, to be, uh, with the beat, to be with, um, in the middle of the...

And the teachings I'm offering these this week for meditation might come as a surprise to some of you.

And that is to, to engage with thinking while you meditate rather than trying to stop thinking.

And some people, even very experienced meditators, this is kind of an unthinkable proposal because it, when they really get into meditation, it feels like they're not thinking at all.

And I don't wanna disagree with that, but, uh, uh, uh, there, there are layers of thinking within us.

And, uh, and those layers go to subtler, subtler, calmer, calmer ways of thinking until some point the thinking, the use of intelligence, recognition, uh, figuring things out, are operating on almost a subverbal level.

If we're walking down a sidewalk in a street, and we see a group of people coming towards us, uh, there, there might not have to be any conscious thinking about it, intentional thinking about it.

Maybe the group of kids are a bunch of kindergarten kids with their teachers, and so of course you step aside and walk around them.

So as we get deeper in meditation, we're still engaging something that's right there on the interface and the, and the, or maybe the gray zone between nonverbal and verbal thinking, active thinking, and, and, and this kind of deeper intelligence.

And it's a whole different li-li-layer of thinking than discursive thinking and calculated thinking.

And to know about this and appreciate it and to have a way of just allowing for it and, and slightly intending it, "Yes, stay here.

Stay here," and to learn how to do it in a way that really supports the meditation, that it is meditative.

W- And in time here is, I think, is a musical term, to be, uh, with the beat, to be with, um, in the middle of the...
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