So how big an opportunity do you see it is, I guess now, and then over the next five or 10

years? I think the biggest opportunity will only come in five to 10 years.

A massive market or a massive body count does not translate into a massive fitness market.

We know that from developed markets where people talk about 15 to 20% penetration.

And you can't say that 100% of the people want to train at all.

100% of the people will have not access to health clubs because there's villages, there's more rural places.

So let's discount them.

But yeah, where are the opportunities

What was happening in that city?

Well, I went to the one which is there since some time, right? Steele.

Upper class, high end club, very well designed, top of the line equipment, top of the line coaches.

I trained there quite a bit when I was there.

I visited, of course, the operators like California Fitness just to see this mass fitness market.

And it's this very traditional fitness, rows of cardio, big studios, wall-to-wall install of one equipment provider.

And relatively... basic as you know it like it was compared with like fitness first or not a virgin more of a fitness first and then most recently I learned about a club called Somni a gentleman built that which is similar to steel in district one of Ho Chi Minh I look forward to visit that next time I'm there but I also went to some bodybuilding gyms and underground clubs which I cannot say the name because I do not speak the language And I went also to some office gyms, which are in office blocks.

But how different is, say, Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi to other destinations? And do you see other opportunities in places like Da Nang, for example? Ho Chi

Do you see that as kind of a bit of a unique advantage? And do you think Thailand is doing enough to really leverage

that? Like Ed, you have been to probably too many Muay Thai gyms yourself, right? Most of them are busy, and then foreigners like to try.

And are they doing traditional Muay Thai? Yes, from the ground up, the warm-up, the stretching, a bit of pad work, right? Is it hardcore? No.

Can any of them fight straight away? No.

But it's authentic.

And none of these gyms and certainly not the ones I saw, are very fancy gyms.

They're clean.

What interesting things do you see happening in the wider wellness space in Thailand?

So tell me about the expectation you had of Bali's fitness and wellness industry before you went, and then having been to 30 locations, how did that match up?

Well, f- from what I knew, of course, I prepared for that trip.

I knew there's, uh, websites, the social media, and then, then some of the coaches who keep posting.

So you have really, uh, high expectations of course on, on, on fit out, on, on, on cleanliness, on, on service.

They said it's, is a super buzzing market and, uh, well-operated market.

That's what I expected.

And, um, we have, uh, a lot of claims in, in Bali to be the best gym in the world, to be the most successful lifestyle and social wellness club, to have the best treatments and so on.

Are they as good as they look? Are they doing that uniquely well? And I guess, are there things that other markets could maybe learn from that, that kind of model?

Mm.

We, we know that from developed markets where people, uh, talk about 15 to 20% penetration and, uh, you can't say that 100% of the people want to train at all.

100% of the people will have not access to health clubs because there's villages, there's more rural, uh, places.

So let's discount them.

I think, uh, the bigger cities have that opportunity in the younger population.

It is not customary so much for the older generation to exercise, and I do not think that we will reach them at scale.

We have never reached them at scale anywhere in the world, a- aside maybe from some European countries, that's supported by the healthcare system.

Can you tell us a little bit about maybe the leading brands, or if you have any insights into sort of FitHub and how they've done it?

Yeah.

So you have something, say something very important that a lot of people who are involved in designing or building or developing hotels still go to the supplier and say, we just need a gym layout.

That is one part of it.

But if now membership integration into these gyms, which more and more hotels want to do in order to capitalize.

everything changes because you have two distinct member journeys.

You have the guest journey, which people who stay in the hotel and come to your gym, and you have the outside member who has to pass through the hotel.

So...

But I think in the fitness industry, we try and push these and promote them as being much more than 5% impact, right? As being

But Yves, if you were going to highlight two, three things that people should pay attention to in the industry space, from your perspective, what would those things be?

Well, I think we all need to realize there's a lot of noise in our sector, always has been.

The latest noise is called longevity.

But anything which we do firstly is about customer experience, right? So what is it what we're trying to do? It's not equipment, it's not design, it's not technology, it's not a trend.

It is what is the customer there to do and why will they be loyal to our concept and whatever we offer.

So let's focus on target customer first before we design any project.

Who is that for? Secondly, it's now finally open.

And secondly,