And so how are you... delivering both speed and the quality that your end users need in order to build trust.

Yeah, it's an interesting question, and I've thought about this.

And there are a couple of parts to the answer, because there are multiple levels of trust.

I think there are pieces of trust that are unbreakable, that are to do with how we handle customer data and security and so on, which I think is still absolutely not negotiable, which is, as an aside... why I still worry about not engineers vibe coding products.

Vibe coding has become a lot more viable, but some of these things, the gotchas around security and privacy are where sometimes having those engineering instincts or the engineering experience to know what's right and what's wrong becomes more important.

But nonetheless, I think that is absolutely imperative.

Now, for other layers, I guess I'll say something, mildly controversial, I think, which is that in a lot of areas, including our own, there is a type of conservatism where we say, well, because we're working in a sensitive area, we need to move very slowly and very carefully.

So I want to know, how do you recover?

You know, what's got to be true for you to get to that point where you just say, "Don't even pursue that business idea," and, and what w- what would you guide them to instead?

I think if we really see that we get to this point of, like, push-button hacking of competently built software, let's say, right, where you just say...

You point yourself at this SaaS thing that, you know, has all the right normal stuff.

It's not doing anything super dumb, and you, like, exfiltrate all, all the SPII sitting behind that piece of SaaS and then, like, Claude's, like, working on it, and then an hour later it's like, "Here you go.

Here's all the customer data." If we see that for real happening, then that's the point at which I would be advising people.

When, when the, the economic cost...

And economic cost does include skill, right? Because, like, cybersecurity skills are economically valuable and scarce.

Like, from, from both an enablement perspective and also a risk perspective, what, what's the practical advice that you would give?