And actually we lose out on joy.

Yes.

We've got to be careful because there's a kind of, and this is something that I sometimes caution people who discover the Puritans.

And, you know, the Puritans have wonderful things to teach us.

Who are the Puritans, Willie? For those who don't know about tapes.

Yeah, they came before the tapes.

Yeah.

you?

What, what does it look like for, uh, people training here?

Well, uh, what it looks like, um, is going to be shaped greatly by the church situation you're in.

Um, and there, there are strengths and weaknesses of different situations, different sizes of churches.

Um, and there are lots of things that we can give people training experience in, uh, in a church like the Tron, because we're quite large and we've got lots of different w- quite specialist ministries.

You know, we've got ministries to international students.

Uh, it's probably if you're in a parish or a s- small church in, in, you know, Lochinver, it's unlikely to be something on your agenda.

Um, you know, w- w- things like that.

It's really great.

And so I think it'd be helpful to, what are some of the limitations of that kind of thinking model? And actually then start to unpack for us some of the deep convictions that Cornhill has about why we're wanting to do it the way that we're doing it here.

I'll let Andy get onto the clever stuff, but let me just do the basic.

Because I like to think of it in terms of an ABC, three legs of a stool that we need.

I was quite literally actually, somebody was lying in my bath thinking about how we could articulate this.

And it came to me that it really is ABC.

And what I mean by that is to train people for ministry, we need the academy.

That is, there needs to be a curriculum.

We can pack up and go home.