OK.

When I was just a young child, because that was when my mom and dad went to Kenya with the family.

And that's where they made the movie Born Free.

They starred in the film Born Free.

The human actors, there were other stars.

They were the lions.

And it was that experience, 10 months on location in Kenya, that transformed their thinking.

Mm-mm.

Okay, well, how about you?

Well, it's not really an early, early memory, but it's the most profound memory that I have of a visit to the zoo was when in the 1980s, early 1980s, I went to London Zoo where a solitary female elephant was being kept.

Her name was Poli Poli.

She'd been in a film with my parents, Virginia McKenna and Bill Travers, in the late 1960s.

But she was a promised gift by the Kenyan government of the time to London Zoo.

And we went there.

And we she was on her own.

But what I am interested in is what you think we should know about the natural world and how you think people are going to learn it if they're not going to learn it in a zoo.