I was hoping that you would explain these concepts and how they function to exclude animals from politics.

Yeah, so the way we put it in the book is that we think a lot of work in this field operates with a mistaken view of animals and a mistaken view of politics.

And so the minimal animal is, on our view, a mistaken view about animals, and the capacity contract is a mistaken view about politics.

So start with the minimal animal.

It's a term we take from Dominique Lestel, who uses it to express the tendency in a variety of fields.

He was actually focusing on animal science and how scientists talk about animals.

But it's this kind of tendency to always... describe animals and explain animals in a way that makes them as least interesting as possible.

And I was also hoping that you would explain the related idea of a holding environment.

I was hoping that you would explain these concepts and how they function to exclude animals from politics.

Yeah, so the way we put it in the book is that we think a lot of work in this field operates with a mistaken view of animals and a mistaken view of politics.

And so the minimal animal is, on our view, a mistaken view about animals, and the capacity contract is a mistaken view about politics.

So start with the minimal animal.

It's a term we take from Dominique Lestel, who uses it to express the tendency in a variety of fields.

He was actually focusing on animal science and how scientists talk about animals.

But it's this kind of tendency to always... describe animals and explain animals in a way that makes them as least interesting as possible.

And I was also hoping that you would explain the related idea of a holding environment.

I was hoping that you would explain these concepts and how they function to exclude animals from politics.

Yeah, so the way we put it in the book is that we think a lot of work in this field operates with a mistaken view of animals and a mistaken view of politics.

And so the minimal animal is, on our view, a mistaken view about animals, and the capacity contract is a mistaken view about politics.

So start with the minimal animal.

It's a term we take from Dominique Lestel, who uses it to express the tendency in a variety of fields.

He was actually focusing on animal science and how scientists talk about animals.

But it's this kind of tendency to always... describe animals and explain animals in a way that makes them as least interesting as possible.

And I was also hoping that you would explain the related idea of a holding environment.

Uh, I, I was hoping that you would explain these concepts and how they function to exclude animals from politics.

Yeah.

So, so the way we put it in the book is that we think a lot of work in this field Uh, operates with a mistaken view of animals and a mistaken view of politics.

And so the minimal animal is, on our view, a mistaken view about animals, and the capacity contract is a mistaken view about politics.

So start with, with the, the minimal animal.

Um, it's a term we take from Dominique Lestel, um, who, who uses it to express the tendency in a variety of fields.

He was actually focusing on, um, animal science, um, and how scientists talk about animals.

Um, I was hoping that you would explain the idea of wild animal territories and, and also its relationship with, um, decolonization and the rights of nature movement.

Uh, I, I was hoping that you would explain these concepts and how they function to exclude animals from politics.

Yeah.

So, so the way we put it in the book is that we think a lot of work in this field, uh, operates with a mistaken view of animals and a mistaken view of politics.

And so the minimal animal is, on our view, a mistaken view about animals, and the capacity contract is a mistaken view about politics.

So start with, with the, the minimal animal.

Um, it's a term we take from Dominique Lestel, um, who, who uses it to express the tendency in a variety of fields.

He was actually focusing on, um, animal science, um, and how scientists talk about animals.

I was hoping you would explain your understanding of political agency as well as some of the reasons supporting it, and I was also hoping that you would explain the related idea of a holding environment.

So really appreciate the work that you are expanding in terms of considering, as you say in the book, this really wonderful quote, you know, our goal is to explore an alternative political imaginary with a view to how ideas are embodied and grounded in places, practices, and relationships.

I was just going to pick up on the other part of Nandita's question, which is about the capacity contract and it's in a way related.

So we sometimes say that the failure to think through the relationship between animals and politics is because we get both of them wrong.

So we get animals wrong because we think of them as the minimal animal in the way that Sue just described.

We also get politics wrong because we think about politics through the capacity contract.

So when I took Politics 101, Intro to Politics, I was told we have universal franchise in Canada.

Everyone has the vote.

What is that bias and why do you think it should be resisted?

Go ahead.

S- so, um, we start with the inherited assumption in political theory that political communities are societal.

That is, that they, they presuppose some kind of shared social world, and that politics is first and foremost about negotiating the terms of a shared social life.

That's ...

If you pick up any sort of political science, political theory textbook, that's likely to be the definition on page one, that politics is first and foremost a, a vehicle by which the members of a shared society negotiate and determine the terms of their, their scheme of social cooperation, uh, the norms of social life, the distribution of the benefits and burdens of social life.

Um, and we think that's w- that is one really important kind of political community, that we need these societal polities, that members, members of a, of a social world, in fact, have the right to, uh, amongst themselves steer the direction of their, of their society.

So we call those societal polities, and the criterion for being a member of a societal polity is that you're a member of that social s- that, that social world, that scheme of social cooperation.

Uh, so I thought maybe we could just spend a spot of time talking about that without losing, you know, I don't wanna lose sight of, of wild animals are an important part of your- the, the project as well.