And you started playing rugby from a young age?

Yeah, about nine.

I played with Cashland.

We played, like, under 11s was the first year.

But I think I played under 11s for two years, so it must have been nine.

That was the first real, like, proper sport.

Like, I played a bit of ga and I played a...

It would help greatly.

Yeah.

Then it became, like, it was a bit harder to get him down, and when you did, it was like, oh, he can counter stuff quite well.

So he'd be, like, looking to sweep, looking to, like, play a bit of bottom jujitsu back and, like, kind of threaten you with it, and then get out very easily.

So a couple of times you'd feel like you wasted massive energy taking him down.

It wasn't just like, oh, you took him down and then he got back up, but you kind of won the exchange overall.

Then it became like, oh, when he would attack this guy wrestling, he really punishes you for it.

Um, and that was over the space of maybe, like, two years-ish.

Yeah.