And I think doing it with live action is definitely different to then doing it with animation, right? Like what was, you know, what made you take that challenge

You know, I think it was more of a thing of just what served the story the best.

You know, I can't really dress up humans as bunnies with guns in a very compelling manner, I thought.

So, you know, it might cost a lot.

I could do it, but it would cost a lot.

But so I think it was just a matter of.

the medium that served the story the best.

Like, what kind of, you know, blossomed this?

Oh, man.

But, um, no. It's, it's, it's, it's definitely, um, stressful, but we definitely have a plan, and, and, um, it's kind of just, a lot of it's just figure it out as you go, you know.

You make cool stuff, and you try to just do as many cool things, obviously economically viably cool things, and, and the money will come somehow.

And so, um, obviously from all of the projects and the IP that we're making, we own some of the IP, and so we're gonna try to sell it to, you know, studios or streamers that are consistently now looking for stuff online that has proven audiences and communities.

And so that's- Probably our biggest way that we're gonna try to recoup our costs, but obviously there's other ways like brand sponsorships, um, you know, merchandise and, and all the above.

And so, um, and al- also we're gonna raise more money from, from, um, from venture and, and angel investors soon in the next months or so.

So but in terms of what success looks like, I'd say, um, hopefully find, you know, more exciting IP and, and, and, and have a big sale to one of the big streamers or studios I would say.

Would you, would you encourage other people to take that same risk? Or would you say, "Yeah, just be sure what, you know, what you're getting into"?

So actually put in perspective with the audience listening, like what exactly was the process before something that actually took off?

I mean, yeah, it is.

That's the funny part about it.

Like everyone saw that story and the way the press painted it, the way everyone kind of wanted to believe it was like it was a thing where it's just like, you know, lightning in a bottle youtube and but the reality was there was a lot of stuff that led to it i mean there was a lot of first of all just like watching a lot of movies dissecting them and learning the craft of like making stuff and you know making stuff with your friends is obviously not the most like it's like oh you're just making stuff with your friends but that's actually where it all starts right that's how you like you know learn the craft of like how a shot makes you feel or how to you know edit or how to make music or whatever all these things and then so then once you um I developed that craft and then I started reaching out to producers after that to help get financing and get cast for the project.

Nothing said everything.

That's where a lot of the project was made.

It was through a lot of begging people to believe in the vision and a lot of sleepless nights of just like, debating whether this is all worth it and um and yeah i mean like one producer did sign on board eventually out of like the 200 i emailed his name is scott um and he's been a mentor to me forever now at this point but he was someone who like saw the hunger and the vision i guess and after i'd made some stuff before that and so i showed it to him but like so like kind of i see it as each each film that i'd made was like a stepping stone for me to like myself for the next thing

So as much as you want to kind of dumb it down for just people to grasp and how actually it works, we'd love to hear it.

And actually finally giving the sign-up paperwork and cash a check.

We want to do this.

paperwork, check, all like six-month periods.

But yeah, that was exciting.

But I mean, to continue the story, because I know Oren's going to be like, and then, so this happened, right? It's a good podcast, honestly.

But yeah, and then we, that was really exciting.

But then like when I went through the studio process, and this is the part that I haven't really publicly talked about yet, but it's like, that was like, a really difficult process of developing the movie under them because they bought a very different movie in their minds from what I wanted to make.

But I guess on that note, so you kind of, parted ways with sony and now you started your own thing like it sounds like you're kind of trying to build a different system that is maybe a little more tuned for people like you

Yeah.

But it was never like, the, the, as in like they supported me, but if I like, if I failed or something, like they would always be like, "Bro, like get back up." You know what I mean? Like, in chess especially, like that was my first, you know, like I'd say experience with all that.

Like, for sure, like it was my whole life for, for a long time, and I was constantly like, you know, just like sent into battle [laughs] by my dad, basically.

My dad would just like take me to all these tournaments, and like I would like, you know, constantly be expected to like do really, really well.

If I didn't, and then be like, you know, like, 'cause he sacrificed a lot to also like, you know, drive me to all these places and travel.

It was very stressful, and I eventually got burnt out by chess in general because it was just so stressful, and like I, yeah, I was thinking about going like pro or like homeschooled or whatever, but I eventually didn't.

And so I just shifted my focus to film.

What is the hill that you're running towards now? Or, like, is there anything right now that you, you so desperately want so bad? You know what I mean?

What film served as a reference point? Any of those or any others that you had as a reference point for creating these characters?

For sure, all of those, Bonnie and Clyde, I think Fantastic Mr.

Fox is a great example of, you know, two countryside foxes, I guess, who, you know, go up against some kind of bad guy system, right? And a husband and wife duo.

And so that was a big inspiration behind just the whimsical kind of style and adult animation that I fell in love with.

And as a kid, I used to watch like Wallace and Gromit and, you know, I think Calvin and Hobbes, a lot of, you know, they're not animation, but I guess they're just great examples of like duos that work really well.

in animation and film.

And so I studied that a lot.

And do you have any books you could recommend? Anything that you've read recently or something you really enjoy and return to often?

And we're trying to grab every element of this film because it's so fast paced.

It's absolutely something I've been really interested in for a long time.

And you could see it even in Nothing Except Everything and a lot of my films where I really try to make sure every second counts and not counts in a way where it's like constantly, you know, making sure that you're paying attention, but constantly, I guess, guiding your attention in certain ways.

I think that's one of the most interesting things about film is that you have the ability to take your audience on a journey and you can plan out every frame unlike a lot of other mediums which all have their own merits of course it's just a matter of film i feel like you can you can guide your audience even more so because it is a fixed kind of thing that the audience is watching as long as they don't you know of course hit pause or anything Yeah, but it's funny you say that.

The dream is to make it into something larger.

So it is somewhat of a trailer, a proof of concept.

And if we get a response from audiences and people love it, our goal is absolutely to make, whether it's a feature film or a TV show from it, I think this was almost like a, as you said, like a visual feast for the eyes.

And then, of course, you know, you did mention how the music played such a huge role in the film.