Could you tell our listeners a little bit more about those levels? Yeah.

Sure.

This is also something we think about a lot.

And again, to break things down into their components so that we create solutions that are accurate and effective.

The first level that we think about is the personal level.

So these are my personal moral beliefs.

It may be the family that I grew up in, the family values that I hold from growing up.

As we think about solutions, where does wellness-centered leadership fit in? Do you think that wellness-centered leadership principles and trainings that exist, does that help health systems and health system leaders to get it closer to right? I hope

I mean, I just don't understand it.

Yeah.

And what I'm seeing are all of these clinicians, physicians in particular, who are in your position day after day are facing these patients who are facing ridiculous bills for their services.

And the physicians are getting tired of this.

It is wearing to go through that day after day after day.

But when you look at these systems, they are so huge that how do we even begin to make a dent in making change with those systems? It's not like you in your exam room can break up Optum, can break up UnitedHealthcare.

It's not like the individual clinician can make a big dent in big medicine.

If that promise is somewhere out in the market in reality at scale, I think you'll start to see people come back to medicine in bigger numbers.

Where did you get the idea for calling it moral injury or, or understanding that this wasn't, burnout maybe wasn't the exact right term?

So it's a little bit of a complicated story.

When I ended up leaving psychiatry because I felt like I was really efficient, I was really resourceful, and somehow I couldn't make this doctoring thing work.

I thought that was about me.

I went and worked for the Department of Defense doing research funding oversight.

And in the course of that, I started seeing physicians across the country who were feeling the same way I had been feeling.

They loved their work.

Wendy, what do you think that looks like in terms of solutions or protecting or, or helping handle this issue and address it and reverse it maybe even?