And in these reenactments, people do get shots.

I flew in.

I was in France.

I was in the south of France vacationing with my family.

And it was hot.

Good Lord.

This heat wave is ridiculous.

And that

[laughs]

I gotta break this up.

And I, and I, and there's some issues that I know are mine, you know? And I, and I try not to feed on it, so I can't...

Like, certain things I can't do, like I don't, I can't see any more, uh, race-based movies.

I can't.

Last one I saw was The Help, and I had to put my foot down after that.

I was like, "I can't do this anymore." No, 'cause it, it touched me.

[laughs]

[laughing]

Get in the shower and I'm like, "Doo doo doo." Do, do, do.

Do, do, do.

[audience laughing] Maybe I should wash that again.

Do, do, do.

Do, do, do.

Do, do, do.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

You know? It was...

Yeah, everybody, everybody, they're out for themselves, you know? As far as- And were you still doing stand-up while you're writing for him? Oh, yeah.

Absolutely.

So you just keep grinding.

Yeah.

Yeah.

TV shows?

Because I'm sure you know that I feel very strongly about, you know, the stuff that you're talking about too, and I feel like it's a responsibility, not an option.

Absolutely.

I mean, I think that's, that's our, you know, what we're supposed to do.

And, and honestly, those are the comedians that resonate with me.

I feel like we're like the daredevils, kinda like.

We're, we're the ones who are supposed to go out and give a voice to the, the people who are marginalized, and I happen to check a lot of boxes, uh, [laughs] in those margins, you know? Being a woman, being, you know, African American, being queer.

So it's f- just, it's just to me, that's, that's what I'm into, you know? I, I, I would feel weird if I went out there and just talked about, I don't know, just everyday stuff, and not about what's really affecting me in my life, and everyone else.

But I wanna ask you about, like, c- your competitive spirit or your competitive nature, and how you see that, how, how that's changed over the years for you, and do you view that as a good thing or do you view it as a negative thing?

Like, h- how you frame that and how you view being political, because I'm sure you know that I feel very strongly about, you know, the stuff that you're talking about, too, and I feel like it's a responsibility, not an option.

Absolutely.

I mean, I think that's, that's our, you know, what we're supposed to do.

And, and honestly, and those are the comedians that resonate with me.

I feel like we're like the daredevils, kinda like.

We're, we're the ones who are supposed to go out and give a voice to the, the people who are marginalized, and I happen to check a lot of boxes, uh, [laughs] in those margins, you know? Being a woman, being, you know, African American, being queer.

So it's f- just, it's just to me, that's, that's what I'm into, you know? I, I, I would feel weird if I went out there and just talked about, I don't know, just everyday stuff, and not about what's really affecting me in my life, and everyone else.

But I wanna ask you about, like, c- your competitive spirit or your competitive nature and how you see that, how, how that's changed over the years for you, and do you view that as a good thing or do you view it as a negative thing?

Mm

... a lot of people like to, to uh, be the, be the critic.

They wanna be the police.

And, you know, so it's like if y- you say something and it, it might offend you, but, but you gotta look at where that person is coming from.

May, you know, maybe their life, their perspective is different from-

Yeah

... you know? Like one of, one of Chris's, uh, [laughs] good jokes, like one of, one of my favorite jokes is, is punching down, but when he says, uh, uh, uh- ...

it, it, about, uh, it's, I, I, I hi- I hide my money in, in books.

Like, what's your take and what's like the, I don't know, like the comedy community's take on Jay Leno? Because it seems like there's a lot of people pissed at him right now.

Yeah, you know, it seems like a lot of people are mad with him, but To me, I mean, if you're anywhere in TV or just, I mean, I'm sure in radio, too.

I mean, you know the game.

If you're not getting the numbers, they'll fire you.

And, you know, Jay, he was getting numbers at the 1130 spot, and they didn't want to lose him, so they pushed him at 10 o'clock.

And it's okay, do I go to 10 o'clock or do I just say, you know, screw it, I'll just try to, you know, sit still for a little bit, because they didn't want to let him out of his contract either.

That's why I'm just like, I would be really pissed at NBC if I were them, because they made both of them look bad.

like

What's the controversy then with Jay? If you're Jay Leno, do you just let that job go because they gave it to Conan, or would you have handled it the same way Jay has? Would you take it back?

Would I take it back? Um...

Well, if it meant that I can't work anywhere else for a while, you know, I mean, he's under contract.

You know, so what do you do? I don't know.

I mean, it's not like if Jay didn't take the job back that they were going to keep Conan, you know.

I like to say, okay, we'll just stick with this guy if we can't have you.

You know, I don't know.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

And he, you know, was like, "Hey, you're funny.

I really, really like your stuff." I'm like, "Oh, wow.

Thanks, Chris." Uh, he said, "I, I might have something for you." I'm like, "Okay." And of course, you know, time passes, and his special blows up and all.

And eventually I did get a, uh, a call and said, "Hey, Chris would like for you to submit some writing, uh, samples." And I put together a packet and, and got the job.

Till you showed up?

... like the outline.

The, I, I didn't get the outline.

And why did you decide to do that? Did you long want to do it and feel intimidated to try, or what was going on there? Yeah.

This was a project that I wasn't looking for or anything, but the writer, co-writer and director, she brought this to me.

She had me in mind, and I looked at the script.

I'm like, this is a drama.

And she said, yeah.

She said, you know, you're...

You're in comedy and you dominate in a field that's run by men.

I would say

Mm.

So, um, and I, I still, you know, train.

I s- I still work out, uh, at a boxing gym.

But it, it, I mean, it...

Yeah, it, it, it, it, it was a little...

It kind of boost my ego a little bit, you know? It was like, you know, it was, it was kinda nice to go in and, and shoot a scene and, and then you look at the, the, the crew and, and they're not, like, in awe, but they're like, "Wow.

Wow." You know, "We...

Yeah.

So were you going in there and then like at night you're hitting the comedy clubs?

Yeah, I was there I think for maybe like three years before I started actually doing stand-up.

Because I just got to the point where I was like, this can't be it for me.

So I tried.

I wrote some jokes and entered this radio station was having a talent competition and got on stage for the very first time.

People laughed.

I loved it.

um was that something that you were always aspiring to to stretch to to get into the the dramatic role

Yeah.

Right, on camera on The Chris Rock Show.

The idea for Wanda at Large, it hit us because it was based on a tr- something that really happened.

My friend Lance Crouther, he was working for, uh, Bob Costas' show, and they were having their wrap party.

And I was like, "Come on, Lance, let me, like, I'll, I'll go with you." And he was like, "Nah, I can't.

I can't, I can't.

I'm not supposed to bring a guest." I was like, "Come on." I said, "Take a look.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I, I, I did have to, have to, like, really, uh, like, think about that, because at, at one point it was like, is this too much? D- you know, 'cause we're just bombarded with, with this crap all day.

Um, do they wanna just laugh about s- you know, silly stuff, or, um, do they wanna actually handle this real, the, the real truth-

Mm-hmm.

And but no one was over there, so I was like, "Oh, I guess, you know, maybe you're not supposed to sit on that side, you know, where the, the grass is." So I just stand on the other side.

So afterwards he, he said, "Did you get, um, any video of me from, from the back?" I said, "Nah." I said, "I wanted to go over there, but I didn't see anybody, you know, over there, so I didn't think you were allowed." He was like, "What?" Like, like, it was like I wasn't even speaking English.

He was like, "Wait, what?"

Mm-hmm.

I, I, I did have to, have to, like, really, uh, like, think about that because at, at one point it was like, "Is this too much?" Do, do you know? 'Cause we're just bombarded with, with this crap all day.

Um, do they wanna just laugh about s- you know, silly stuff, or, um, do they wanna actually handle this real, the, the real truth-

See nutrition info on hero.co for sodium and sugar content.

content.I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment from KQED.

Every week, Snap drops you inside someone's biggest decision, the kind of decision you can only make once, with everything on the line.

What do you believe? What do you want? And what would you risk to get it? [upbeat music] Find out.

Snap Judgment, new episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

Take a look.

Yeah, ICE is out here now.

Now, here's the thing.

Th- th- they're supposed to be going after violent criminals, right? That's, that's what they said.

They gonna get violent criminals who aren't supposed to be here, get them off the streets.

Now, I'm like, "Okay, I'm, I'm down with that," but here's the thing.

I, I want all violent criminals off the street

What did you do to prepare for this role physically and emotionally?

Yeah.

Chris Rock gave me the advice years ago when I was, uh, shooting my first special, and he said, "Make it special." So I'm like, "What can I do, you know, to really elevate this one?" And, uh, one, uh, brought in Julie Dash to direct, and, uh, she just, I mean, she killed it, especially the, um, the, the, the opening.

Um, just working with her, uh, her name is on it, so I was like, "I gotta match the-"

... tell me a little bit about that.

Um, it's, it's a dramatic film and it's set in the world of boxing, uh, which I fell in love with.

Uh, yeah, I'm a, I'm a, uh, a former, uh, champion, and now I'm training, uh, uh, I'm a trainer, and I'm training, uh, my son who I'm trying to, uh, you know, uh, uh, reconnect with, 'cause I gave him up when he was a, a little kid.

Uh, so it's, it's a movie about family and, uh, and, and forgiveness and, like, forgiving yourself.

Mm

...

but a lot of people like to, to, uh, be the, be the critic.

They wanna be the police.

And, you know, so it's like if y- you say something and it, it might offend you, but, but you gotta look at where that person is coming from.

May- you know, maybe their life, their perspective is different from-

Yeah

... you know? Like one of, one of Chris's, uh, [laughs] good jokes, like one of, one of my favorite jokes is, is punching down but when he says, uh, uh, uh, uh, about, uh, his, uh, uh, "I, I have my money in, in books.

Mm-hmm.

When you're trying to explain certain things.

Not explain, but just, like, when moments like that happen and then y'all talk through, or do y'all just laugh about it and move on? We, I mean, we kinda laugh.

We laugh.

You know, my mom said something, uh, and at, at the time that she said it, I was like, "What kind of, you know, throwback antebellum South shit is that?" But she, um- [laughing] ...

she, she, um, they, they, uh, you know, in Virginia, and, um, they bought a house.

This is, this was back in, like, maybe the '80s, '90s, yeah, whatever.

[laughs]

Yeah, people make the sound with their mouth, yeah

... yeah, yeah.

They laugh and we go, "Okay, yeah, this is working." But, uh, drama, yeah, you don't get that.

So I'm like, "Eh, this is...

I, I guess this is okay." But I, I noticed after the first day, um, the crew, it was a shift in the crew.

Like, these, these are wonderful people, wonderful people working.

Um, but after, you know, they, they were, like, watching, watching, and then the second day they were, like, just really more attentive.

Come on.

Mm-hmm

... uh, they, they were strict.

But we had fun.

We, you know, they were, um...

My dad would, was serious about his job, but when he got home he'd take his uniform off and, you know, he was Dad.

Um, and also my, my dad hustled, man.

He had side jobs and everything, you know? Um, that's how I fell in love with bowling, I guess, because he would on weekends clean the lanes.

And this opportunity to do this film, how did it come about? Undercard.

[laughing]

I mean, you know.

Uh, yeah, so I, I just had to get comfortable being in that space, and I, I stayed with it.

And, uh, you know, I found a trainer, uh, Cameron, and we s- you know, worked out.

I had to learn how to hold the mitts.

Uh, I think it... 'Cause the big part of it is I, I had to be comfortable in that space.

I didn't want to, you know, thinking about lines and acting and not, not, you know, not be, um, feel...

Mm.

What was your initial reaction to the news?

Oh, man.

We were, we were just, just overwhelmed and just so excited.

Um, and, 'cause we were working on this for a long time, and not just the two of us.

We also, um, there's an- another mom group, uh, uh, Ashley Luckenheimer and, and Starla Crandall, uh, another couple.

And this all like started, we were telling them what we wanted to do, and they, you know, jumped on it and was like, "Hey, yeah, let, you know, let's, let's, let's go for it." And just started making calls and meeting with, um, you know, city council, uh, people.

And, um, actually the mayor was on the city council at that time, so we met with her.

Mm-hmm.

On this week's Wild Card podcast, Wanda Sykes says she can have a hard time understanding God.

What is the plan, man? You know ...

(laughs) What is the lesson here?

Ooh.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, it's like, ooh, boy, you are in a pickle right now, God.