Oh, a guy actually came up and treated me like every other girl.

Normalcy and also honesty.

I think that there's, especially in celebrity culture, you basically get around a bunch of people who want to please you constantly because that's their kind of way up in the world.

And so anybody who is honest with you is extremely refreshing.

And so honesty can sometimes feel like unkindness or whatever.

It can be like, oh, this guy's a jerk to me.

But, you know, he's not trying to beg for my approval constantly.

Like if Kacey Musgraves supports you, I now think, hmm, I'm not sure that's the right guy.

And I don't really know where he wants us to land.

yeah the tough part about it and i think that the um the reason people felt dissatisfied is they felt like they were talking against he was talking against them but there are no specifics in what he's saying and so the trouble is that any candidate that ends up having to go on the campaign trail has to not only like have to pick enemies and have to pick friends and they have to have people who are going to endorse them and people who are going to denounce them once once you actually get into the real realm of politics you start to have friends and enemies And I think that probably the closest thing that I think is a workable way of going about what he's going for here is sort of Spencer Pratt kind of approach to politics, which is I'm not insane.

I will work with anybody who will make sure that I can get done, make sure L.A. can work again, make sure that normal stuff happens.

We got to fix our electric grid, stuff like that.

Let's solve regular old problems appealing to people across the board, but also having people who are enemies of his and friends of his.

Because you can't avoid it.

You can you can avoid it if you're sitting back and sort of looking at political platforms and going, I'll take some of that and I'll take some of that and I'll make my own little ideological soup.

Is he open borders or is he, you know, immigration enforcement? What? And I'd say that to you, Wade, like after Donald Trump, what does independence look like?

[laughs]

... you know, "Take off her jacket," and, you know, "Pull her chair out for her," and that sort of thing.

And that's, like, it's...

It...

We look back on it and we go like, "Oh, it's so rigid and, like..." Maybe a little bit charming, but also, like, um, uh, you know, we, we look down on it like we've graduated past this, but what did we replace it with? Like, what, what's, what's the new thing? And it, like, we actually do need somebody to tell us what appropriate behavior is so that we're not just guessing at it all the time, and we're not, like, if you go out on a date, like, with some stranger, you don't know what their algorithm is, and so you don't know what's be- what they've been encouraged to think or do their entire life.

And so you're just sort of trying to s- like, walk around the landmines, um, while also, like, y- yeah, this, these, these rules are not coming from anybody that you trust.

They're just sort of...

... is who we are.

So I think people change their

mind.

Yeah.

OK, the tough part.

And go ahead, Wade.

I was just to say the tough part as as we're thinking about this, we have to also think about like if we look back in history, like that's the question that Andrews is bringing up.

Look back in history at any society that we would like to be more like, including our own a few decades ago and back at its founding.

It's Wade Stotts.

And then we adjust.

Break a few eggs.

Right.

Yeah, the great playwright David Mamet said that people don't always say what they mean, but they always say something designed to get what they want.

And so anytime somebody makes a huge shift in rhetoric like these leaders of these companies, you should start to wonder again when they were saying that they were building God and that this was going to build utopia.

They were doing that during the fundraising portion of their existence.

And then now that they are trying to go public, changing the rhetoric to now it is extremely dangerous.

Yeah,

I'm just not mad that he said that.

It helps that he's being funny.

And, like, yeah, it is true that, like, Stephen A. Smith is a great entertainer.

That's, like, his job, right? So when you watch him, he is doing an entertainment show.

I love that.

But you talked about, like, yeah, people would be mad if somebody did it reverse and said, like, you can't win with a black head coach in the NFL, whatever.

Like, I think that would be like it would be we'd be a better off if everybody could say that, like if people could just argue and be like, what are you talking about? And like everybody goes back and forth.

I

Woke two is just looking through the same, whatever, telescope, but through the other lens, starting with communism and looking back the other way.

way.Yeah, I would say that woke one itself is mainly framing everything in terms of, um, American moral problems.

So problems that were, okay, slavery, uh, Jim Crow, that sort of thing.

Things that, uh, accusations against the American people, against other people who were, like also Americans, and what, what are we gonna do with that? How do we deal with past things that America did to other people here? Um, I think that the characterization of what's happening now is a broader anti-colonial, anti-American, foreign, uh, sort of focus.

So you've got like woke one dealing with like, hey, you Americans, the American government treated other Americans poorly, would those things need to be addressed? Land acknowledgements for the Native Americans.

Uh, let's talk about Jim Crow, et cetera.

Now we're moving into, uh, international, uh, sort of anti-Americanism, and I think that that's partly a result of, uh, the, uh, rapid, uh, importation of a ton of people who have... who don't have the Jim Crow complaints.

The exhaustive list, I don't think I've even gotten to half of it yet.

So what do you think of that? Those, those, these three options and where do you think it's going? Well,

as you said, I mean, we haven't seen The Odyssey, but if this is the kind of film in which Odysseus' longing for home is undermined, then I think that that's the ultimate tragedy that you...

Like, the thing that you...

the worst thing that you could do to that kind of story in 2026 especially as like nostalgia longing for home is the thing that everybody has and we're just sort of um like drowning in this feeling that uh there's there's some home that i haven't been to or that i have heard about or seen on social media clips that like that that's that's the place that i'm supposed to be um Um, and like, if you, like, it's sort of, I have a faint memory of some place where I'm at home and everybody's walking around with that every day.

And then they go to this movie that's telling them that's what this is about.

You know, dad's going to come home or, uh, like I'm going to go home and you just go actually, no, your home doesn't matter.

Give it away.

And I have some ideas of why this might be, but like, what do you think's going on with this? Why is this absorbing so much bandwidth in the cultural conversation? And then why is it actually doing so well despite the fact that it's woke? And I thought you go woke, you go broke.

And I don't have it really nailed down, but you're the perfect guy 'cause this is what I wanna explore, Wade.

Yeah, I think the, um, the thing that you can make fun of is the labeling, mainly because, like, Blue MAGA, uh, only works as a pejorative in sort of Piker's world where, like, Maoism is a compliment, uh [laughs], and Blue MAGA...

Uh, MAGA, oh, that's, that's, uh, it's sort of an inside club thing.

Um, but yeah, there is a, such a thing as the establishment of the Democrat Party, and the establishment of the Democrat Party, um, f- what, the frustration that he feels is that that's where the money is.

Um, and I think that he is realizing he's getting lots of streams, which are, is a different kind of vote of confidence.

So he sees all these people, uh, they, they tend to vote for the Democrats.

The Democrat Party apparatus is very wealthy.

... give them another answer for real problems.

Young people aren't jumping into the sack like they are in TV, you know? It's almost like they're getting different signals from the culture of these wayward youth that have moved to New York and LA and are writing all these shows.

Yeah.

And, and if you watch a, a show or, or a movie where they're trying to create a sort of home life, um, it's usually really thin.

So if they're like, "Oh, this is a, this is a..." Um, so I watched, uh, The Running Man recently, um, which, you know, we c- everybody can have different opinions about it, but, like, you've got this, uh, Glen Powell character, and all you know about him is he has a family, and they sort of hug and kiss, and that's, that's the most that you get for like, okay, here's n- now you have a real family.

But the writers don't know how to write this, because all the writers and the director, they don't have a family, so they, they can't make something that feels tactile and real in the way that, again, a sitcom used to be able to do, used to be able just to convey, oh, that's what it's like to talk to your wife, or that's what the way it, what it is to talk to your husband, talk to your kids.

Uh, this is the way kids act around other adults.

This is the way kids act with each other.

... or is it the young people? Is the young generation, they have this, a sense that, you know, uh, that socialism is cool? What is it that makes these cities beyond, uh, help at this point?

That's the end result of socialism, is the equality of mud huts.

Hmm.

Yeah, I mean, and you saw this also with, um...

So on the standard of living thing, there's also a cultural difference that people are experiencing, and their response to that cultural difference says a lot about them and where they're coming from emotionally.

So you've got the pe- and, um, you guys have talked about on the show, people who are coming in and are thrilled to be here.

People like, I saw this Irish couple going through Alabama who got their food paid for, and they were just over- o- overwhelmed with, uh, gratitude, and had also, just reflecting on, like, the, the people who settled this area were sort of Anglo-Irish like folks.

And, and so he, they're like meeting their cousins at some level, and their response to this is gratitude.

However, I kinda don't know where we are now in 2026.

I will tell you, Wade, I'm a little surprised even as you move down the scale from liberal to moderate and even conservative, how many people believe that 1,000, 10,000, more than 10,000 unarmed Black men have been killed by police in a single given year.But this is what happens when you make people turn off their brains and buy religiously into these stories.

And th- this, uh, 2020 and then, uh, going into probably 2023, uh, might have been, I think, the last sort of, uh, time when the media thought that they had won everything.

And, and they had every reason to think that.

They had, uh, the, the sort of liberal media thought that, um, whatever we say becomes the narrative forever.

Uh, and, and this chart shows that, yes, that was true, especially at that time.

And so they're, right now, back, back here to 2026, the goal is, okay, let's rewind and grab the moments, the last few moments where we had entire total narrative control, and people weren't trying to deconstruct everything that we did.

If you search the name George Floyd on most social media today, a lot of it's going to be, like, really kind of distasteful memes [laughs] and, and sort of videos.

Piker is a 2026 Democrat, which is open, honest, and out there about their own radicalism

And that says more to me about the way people are talking about these stories than probably even the credibility of the stories.

Yeah, I think that's totally fair.

I mean, the, the fact that, uh, there's not been a re- you can't, uh, what you're trying to do, a- which is totally fair in how a rational person wants to approach this, is take your normal standards of evidence and apply them to these claims.

Uh, the, the trouble is that they're not, there aren't a lot of claims.

There's just a bunch of kind of insinuation.

Um, that's something that does well on podcasts and it's something that does well on, uh, sort of reality TV or The First 48 or, uh, documentaries about some past crime.

You can insinuate and put a bunch of stuff, but there's a reason that relevance is an issue in court.

... found the brakes, and I don't think it's gonna get better even, even once we say goodbye to Donald Trump.

... informants in McDonald's right now," that kind of thing, they do realize you're federally required as a nonprofit to say how you're spending your money and where you're getting it from.

Yeah, it is, it is wild honestly, uh, because it allows these people to, um...

Yes, m- the, the idea is, okay, this is just a small part of their budget.

They are doing the work that they, uh, say that they're doing.

Well, but the small part of their budget is creating the enemies that they are fighting.

[laughs] So it's...

They're, they're building their own enemies so that they can have something to market on.

And just as annoying as Syndrome.

Who knew? (laughs)

(laughs) Yeah, uh, Obama is this, like, sort of relic from a previous time, and it is odd to see him, 'cause it feels like he's become so irrelevant to the popular imagination, except for to, like, avid NPR listeners, uh, that it- it- it is bizarre to see that he still exists and is, you know, waking up every morning and, you know, doing stuff like this.

But yeah, casting a vision, it's odd to see a guy who lost so, uh, you know, like has continued to lose the, like, center of America, uh, again.

And then he has to get up on stage, or Michelle gets on camera and says, "You know what? No one's ever been as mean to anyone as to the First Family."

Family."Yeah.

Oh, and like same with Hillary when you see her just doing stuff.

It's, it's this very like, um, I don't know, this old starlet who, uh, used to have all the roles, uh, this sort of old Billy Wilder movie and yeah, no, it's tragic, but it's a joy I think.

It's fun to see these, uh, these people not know that they're irrelevant, not realize that they've lost so por- so much, um, but you know, who knows if these...

Mm-hmm.

...

they, they did, they definitely did hold onto them for a while.

Um, it, it, it is interesting.

I don't think that they expect ...

Maybe they didn't expect that they wouldn't even want to, uh, replace anybody.

I think they've ...

Like, she is getting dragged mercilessly.

Do you think they're doing a good job? Could you offer them some more comedy tips for ways that they can use it?

I think they seem to be having a ton of fun with this as compared to the Democrats.

And it's much more their messaging is coming across because I think of the humor.

So the Democrats, their response to this, they decided to do a 24 hour live stream all about their reasons for the shutdown.

And I find myself explaining this to people who are very politically involved, letting them know that the Democrats did a 24 hour live stream.

And the reason that people don't know this is because they did.

I think there were a few dozen people watching at any one time.

Yeah.

Do you think they're doing a go- a good job? Could you offer them some more comedy tips for ways that they can use it?

[laughs] I think they seem to be having a ton of fun with this as compared to the Democrats.

Uh, and it's much more, their messaging is coming across because, I think, of the humor.

Uh, so the Democrats, w- their response to this, they decided to do a 24-hour live stream, uh, all about their reasons for the shutdown, and I, I find myself explaining this to people who are very politically involved, letting them know that the Democrats did a 24-hour live stream.

Uh, and the reason that people don't know this is because they did, I think there were f- a few dozen people watching at any one time.

Um, so, uh, the, the Democrat's messaging is not going as far and wide as, uh, as the Republican's is.

Um, w- and so a few dozen people watching as compared to the sort of, the whole story about the shutdown became about the Hakeem Jeffries sombrero meme.

Yeah

Right.

Um, and so he was, he was a guy who made a lot of people not feel alone.

Um, in, in my, basically my entire adult life, I'm, I'm sure it was that way before, but, um, people who were conservatives, people who were Christians, people who thought the things that Charlie Kirk thought, were afraid to share those things publicly.

Uh, there was some sense of social shame, uh, that kept people from even voicing those kinds of opinions.

And, um, Charlie was a guy, he would go to these college campuses.

I watched ...

I mean, all of us watched several of his clips, um, after this, uh, after, after his passing.

I hope they hang him.

No, it's wonderful.

The, the, the sort of post-World War II way of thinking about the world is that, "Well, World War II happened because of...

Because Hitler thought that there was such a thing as national interests.

Uh, and so anybody who talks about national interests must be a bad guy." Um, that's kind of a silly way of thinking about World War II, but that was the, the way that it's been interpreted now.

Um, and so now, we are comfortable at least moving past that way of thinking and saying, "No.

We are a nation, and we do have interests," and we understood that for a long time before, I think, the 20th century perverted, uh, that way of, of thinking.

And so now it's okay to reclaim and say, "Hey, our trade should reflect the fact that we have national interests.

Yeah.

Consult with your healthcare provider.

Yes, I think that a lot of the conflict is what happens when people try to move from particulars.

So you talked about there's this particular guy who w- did these particular things.

He, he beat up his wife.

He's an MS-13 guy.

And then everybody wants to move from that into immigrants in theory.

So what, what is, what refugee- refugees in theory, and then Stephen Miller comes along or J.D. Vance comes along and says, "Well, this guy did this.

Clearly, that's not the case.

Uh-... why do we keep seeing them made? I mean, I know we talk about the boardroom bubble, where they're like, "How can we make a lot of money by appealing to the low corner?" But you've gotta think at some time, they're aware they're being made fun of, right?

(laughs) Yeah, this one in particular, uh, was interesting because...

So, the Minecraft movie having come out, um, it was...

There was a trailer initially that got released.

And everybody who watched it initially, um, it was a, a universal panning.

So, everybody just thought like, "Oh, and it's another slapped together, uh, movie." Uh, and then the...

so that then the next one, uh, the, the takeaway that these people had about the first one was, "Oh, it wasn't Minecrafty enough.

Right.