So we're pretty excited about that.

Adding to what Johan said, we're very happy with how the rollout has worked with LIDAR and Robinhood Wallet on the Robinhood chain.

And in particular, the metrics for real-world assets are especially strong there and growing at a really healthy clip.

But I guess stepping back to your question, I remember when we started building LIDAR and I would tell friends from TradFi, Some of them had no idea how blockchain works or any of that, but they're like, yeah, this perpetual, I wish I could trade that in my markets.

We've all heard these stories, if you've been on the trading floor long enough, of someone who forgot to roll their dated future and then all of a sudden the firm trading shop in New York or Connecticut is getting a barrel of oil.

yeah so yeah so i think you know the perpetual is like an idea whose time has finally come um i think for a lot of markets it's like the most natural way to trade leveraged exposure to the market and but it's also it's not necessarily um like a magic bullet either like for some markets like compute you might actually want dated futures because like a neo lab or infrastructure company does have like specific timelines when they want to hedge compute for other markets options make more sense so i think like the way we look at it at lighter we're building the core infrastructure layer and you can actually trade all these things from the same balance sheet and do it in a capital efficient way

And I just love to hear about some of those lessons.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, one interesting one is the pre-IPO perps.

Was it obvious to you, being in these Olympiads and just in the- these cohorts of people, was it kinda just obvious amongst you and, and your peers that everyone was going to go and apply themselves in some great way? Or were you guys just kids playing with numbers?

numbers?For me, I saw it a little bit 'cause I used to think of it like, okay, if you, if you, like, stack rank everybody, like, you know, like the people...

Like, let's say you were to, like, whatever metric you come up with, like you stack rank everyone, let's say in the country, right? Like, whoever the top seed is, second seed, third seed.

If you-- Like, and, and, and that, that ranking doesn't change that much from one year to the next.

If you...

I thought, okay, well, if you project that out 20 years, it's probably gonna be not about the same then.

So like these are the people who will contribute.

Yeah, right

Like, can you sort of lay out the landscape of where we're at on legal perps in the U S who's allowed, who's not and what it's going to take to get there?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I, you know, perps and kind of derivatives in general are regulated by the CFTC, right? And so CFTC, we've spent a lot of time with, you know, with chair Mike Selig and his team there.

I also joined their innovation advisory committee, kind of helping them think through some of the bigger questions around this, but like, like CFTC is, they're really, you know, they've been moving fast.

They're operating in a little bit like a startup within the federal bureaucracy in that way.

Like they're like the fact that they, they already approved centralized perps, the context of Kelshi, like, that was like the first time in 10 years that fundamentally new market was added to their framework, right? So like they're moving fast, like there's still the rules, right? So there's core principles with CFTC that need to be followed or either kind of, as written or followed in another way, and there needs to be a justification for why that works.

And Lighter has this mechanism where I think at the moment, you basically buy back whatever lighter token with all revenue at least for now and sometime in the future you're going to go split it to profit only but point being is you guys have a pretty serious focus on buybacks and so i mean do they matter do buybacks matter and and what is the purpose of them

Why, why economics?

Right.

So when I got to Harvard, um, you know, I was thinking about what, you know, to concentrate in.

I mean, actually, most people don't know this, uh, about Harvard, but, like, a lot of the curriculum is kind of, um, more general.

So, like, it's like if you pick a concentration, that doesn't mean that 95% of your classes are in that concentration.

So you're still learning a lot of other areas, but you do need to pick a concentration.

And for me, the way I looked at it is like, okay, like, I'm pretty good at building stuff in terms of programming.

But maybe you can translate that, like what was interesting about these problems?

Can you just share a little bit more about your plans for the token and how you plan to distribute value?

Yeah, I think that, you know, we will operate it as the core team.

I mean, I think that there's like you know, there's a question of decentralization of the tech, right.

And that, I think that doesn't necessarily mean you need to go, you need to kind of have a overly complex structure when it comes to governance and, you know, decentralization of that.

Right.

So, so I think actually like having those decisions being made by the core team makes sense.

And, uh, you know, our goals are, this is kind of, I guess, the point of the incentive alignment too, right? Like our goals are exactly aligned with the goals of the broader ecosystem.

So one of them is, is David Sachs still invested or has he divested? And the second one is, what's the current status of the relationship between Leiter and Robinhood?